Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Dutch women's group 'Voorzij' have their bank account suspended by Bunq

37 replies

Cailleach1 · 08/11/2021 19:21

... for being a women's group that organises as a sex class and for not including males in their feminism.

To quote the article

Bank Account of Dutch Feminist Organization Cancelled for "Transphobia"
Only Dutch feminist group that doesn’t claim “transwomen are women” had its bank account closed.

And Bunq has the audacity to lecture women (as a sex class) it is because they (Bunq) do not tolerate discrimination - against transwomen.

So, it would appear to me that Bunq seems to regard women who organise themselves as a sex class as hateful. Misogyny was ever thus. I'm laughing at the Bunq page where it states that 'Bunq is the bank of the free'. Well, unless you're a woman. It seems to be a bloke at the helm.

voorzij are on twitter, with an @ before it.

4w.pub/bank-account-dutch-feminists/

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
ArabellaScott · 11/11/2021 22:49

Keep the tips, eh? That's really shitty.

Donated. Hope they get back up to speed soon.

ANewCreation · 11/11/2021 22:34

I couldn't understand why the money was returned. Surely the time to do your due diligence as a platform is before the fundraising goes live?

Thanks for the direct link. Just doubled the number of carrots given. Totally agree that women ideally need our own giving platform. Then I would actually tip...

NecessaryScene · 11/11/2021 22:25

My (teeny) tip was refunded. Will remember not to offer one again. I knew not to for Crowdjustice...

OvaHere · 11/11/2021 19:47

I never give any of these fundraising sites tips. All of them have cancelled women's fundraisers at one point or another. I resent my donation via PayPal plus a bit extra.

Original poster
Cailleach1 · 11/11/2021 19:40

Just a bit of discussion from twitter

All donations have been refunded and Voorzij does not receive a cent. And if I understand correctly, gofundme does keep the amounts people paid extra as tips.

Is it true that they get to keep any extra from a fundraiser they cancelled?

then on the reason the platform (called go fuck women by someone) gave about why it wouldn't let a women's rights group fundraise using their platform.

Just a reference that it didn't meet their terms without being specific.

twitter.com/voorzij/status/1458874991584419848

OP posts:
Original poster
Cailleach1 · 11/11/2021 19:31

Stichting (means foundation) Voorzij (means 'for her') are accepting carrots using the allotment pay (then other word for friend). They have the link on their twitter addy, which is voorzij with an @ in front of it.

It is in Dutch (but google translate is a good friend).

OP posts:
Original poster
Cailleach1 · 11/11/2021 19:18

Why don't Voorzij open an ABN Ambro, ING or Rabobank account? Those banks don't seem to be trying to actively suppress women's rights.

Not like the pretend 'progressive' bro's, who seem (to me) to be happily join in with the misogynistic onslaught against women who don't facilitate everything men want. Or women who are striving to keep child protection or safeguarding in place; which is what Voorzij stand for.

OP posts:
Original poster
Cailleach1 · 11/11/2021 18:52

Women really need women led services. These dude bro's and their acolytes really seem to want to completely disempower women.

First is setting up a woman friendly crowdfunding platform. One that doesn't depend on the whims of the dude bro's. As they seem to be invariably hostile to women.

OP posts:
Original poster
Cailleach1 · 11/11/2021 18:46

This is what is on their twitter: -

AND WE LOST ALL OUR MONEY
@gofundme cancelled our crowdfunder.

ALL €5000 EURO'S ARE IMMEDIATLY RETURNED TO THE GENEROUS GIVERS BY @GOFUNDME
.
No objection possible.

twitter.com/voorzij/status/1458867987767873543

OP posts:
NecessaryScene · 11/11/2021 18:39

The allotment seems to have been ploughed up.

Anyone got info?

Original poster
Cailleach1 · 09/11/2021 19:10

Seems BUNQ do let activists and ideologies use their bank. Another organisation distributes Korans and looks for funds to put girls into hijabs. There may be more. So, they very much do offer business accounts for political and ideological activities. So, why pretend they don't and that is why a women's rights group is suspended for feminism . I wonder if it just might be that orgs/businesses whose aim is to stop the suppression of women's rights is not in line with their ethos. They allow other activist groups, but then say they cannot, in particular, have women's rights groups. You'd probably need to be a good Dutch speaker to explore what conversation is happening.

Anyways, for the moment the main banks ING, Rabobank and ABM Ambro seem, at least not ostensibly, to be disproportionately involving themselves in the suppression of women's rights groups to hold bank accounts in the Netherlands.

Nevertheless, ING and ABN Amro emphasize that they do not want to interfere with the ideas of customers. 'Freedom of expression is a great asset, undermining is a step too far', a Rabobank spokesperson summarizes the position.

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.md/2021.11.09-081347/www.volkskrant.nl/economie/de-bank-van-nu-let-niet-meer-alleen-op-je-centen-maar-ook-op-wat-je-zegt~b9977e74/#selection-603.7-603.594" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">archive.md/2021.11.09-081347/www.volkskrant.nl/economie/de-bank-van-nu-let-niet-meer-alleen-op-je-centen-maar-ook-op-wat-je-zegt~b9977e74/#selection-603.7-603.594

OP posts:
Original poster
Cailleach1 · 09/11/2021 16:11

Oh gosh. Not such thing as bad publicity sort of thing. Bit sh*tty to choose a feminist group to do it on. Really punching down. Run by blokes and techie start up provenance to boot, though; maybe mightn't worry too much about sh1tting on women.

If Voorzij win the case, will they get their costs, I wonder. Also, they'd do well to move their a/c anyway. To a woman friendly bank.

OP posts:
apalledandshocked · 09/11/2021 14:08

@Poppydoppy18

IMO (I’m Dutch) The Netherlands is a rather feminist country so I’m very surprised that this is happening. Although I haven’t lived there in 3 years so everybody might just try and be super ‘woke’ now.

Most Dutch laws, from what I remember, regarding social media and freedom of speech seem to be very outdated so they would probably not support Bunq’s viewpoint.

Bunq are a bit weird though. They did a big advertising campaign which was all based on weird stuff like "open a Bunq account with all your sexual partners" with a sexually suggestive photo. Which is fair enough, I mean if they want to appeal to the polygamous demographic then that's fine. It was the sort of thing that would get them publicity in other countries but Dutch people are like "meh". But I guess they have gone for the "sex-positive" business approach. If I was being cynical I would suspect that this is an attempt by a regular newcomer to get a lot of media attention by doing something controversial and then some people would vow never to use them but others who agree with their stance would support them. And for a small bank that's a win - and probably cheaper than an advertising campaign even if they lost a court case. So I SUSPECT that this is a cynical ploy on their part rather than ideology.
Lammysaurus · 09/11/2021 13:52

@MargaritaPie

Looks like the Netherlands is more supportive of LGBT rights. They cancel the bank accounts of hate groups whilst Britain gives them charity status.

And yes I know I haven't researched this group, but I'm presuming it's something similar to the LGB Alliance (ie something that pretends to be gay-rights but is anti-trans and transphobia in practice).

Nothing like a little DARVO in the morning, eh?

The situation being discussed here has nothing to do with LGBTQ2IA+ rights; it has to do with a political disagreement. Very likely the action that has been taken violates Netherlands law and also the ECHR. We'll see.

Interesting reaction, though - immediately assuming something pro-woman must be "hateful" without bothering to learn anything about the specific situation. Attempting to smear a completely unrelated UK charity in the process, with (again) no evidence or even any argument.

Just a friendly reminder: misogyny and homophobia are also bigotry, and accusing others of hate whilst emenating viscreal, unfounded, knee-jerk hate oneself could possibly be considered a bit hypocritical (and possibly slanderous). And of course, self-professed gnorance isn't a defense; there's no requirement to comment on a thread if you know nothing about the topic.

Original poster
Cailleach1 · 09/11/2021 11:50

Oh dear. Does someone think same sex attraction is wrong? Or women shouldn't have a voice? That is so .. retrogressive. That could be the new mantra 'Backwards is progress'.

It will be interesting to see if the Dutch gov't will be on the hook for compensation down the line, if women and girls are harmed by the deliberate removal of safeguarding and protections. Also those who may be physically harmed by the foreseeable consequences of being medicalised or having surgery when they may not have been in a position to properly consent. As they allude to bodily integrity in this compo scheme.

OP posts:
Original poster
Cailleach1 · 09/11/2021 11:29

Voorzij, For her. An unapologetic women's rights group. To defend women's rights against erosion by male entitlement - even if the emperor is posing in new 'clothes'.

I think we're way past being manipulated by people saying women's rights are hateful if it means men cannot do whatever they want.

OP posts:
MargaritaPie · 09/11/2021 10:48

Looks like the Netherlands is more supportive of LGBT rights. They cancel the bank accounts of hate groups whilst Britain gives them charity status.

And yes I know I haven't researched this group, but I'm presuming it's something similar to the LGB Alliance (ie something that pretends to be gay-rights but is anti-trans and transphobia in practice).

Bortles · 09/11/2021 10:25

This is a new level of scary. So, a fine toothed comb needed to check none of their other account holders meet the political criteria then.

Original poster
Cailleach1 · 09/11/2021 10:20

This is interesting. The Dutch gov't are compensating people who were obliged to undergo sterilisation procedures in order to register as the other sex.

I wonder if those who were given puberty blockers or 'affirmation' surgery will be in line for compo, too. It could be said that being sterile is a logical consequence of some of these interventions. Or losing sexual function? There may be many detransitioners down the line who may have felt in retrospect they were not in a position to give consent due to youth or state of mind.

Since physical integrity is explicitly mentioned, what about women who are physically put in harm's way by the state or organisations e.g. being locked up with male rapists; or having to play with/against male bodies in supposedly women's teams. What about if women are sexually assaulted because they put (self selecting) males on hospital wards or where women are especially vulnerable to male violence/assault etc.

www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-lgbt-sterilisation-idUSKBN28B5UX

OP posts:
Original poster
Cailleach1 · 09/11/2021 10:01

Oh, seems you can just get your birth certificate doctored changed to your preferred sex. No fee, it appears. Children under 16 will be able to apply to have this done also.

Well, now the principle is ceded, shouldn't people be able to change their age and place of birth too.

nltimes.nl/2021/05/08/dutch-cabinet-ready-allow-children-change-gender-registration

OP posts:
Original poster
Cailleach1 · 09/11/2021 09:46

They wish to harvest five thousand carrots. They have one and a half thousand carrots.

A propos of nothing, I used to prepare a dish that involved squeezing orange juice over roasted carrots. Now I might chuck a few carrots to this team oranje.

OP posts:
Original poster
Cailleach1 · 09/11/2021 09:38

Self id legislation for anyone over 16, without any medical intervention or control, seems to be on the agenda in the Netherlands. With all that means for single sex spaces, and safeguarding. Women being locked up with male prisoners, sports etc. There would be no spousal right to pause things until they are out of the marriage with someone who wants to change their 'legal' sex. I don't know what date this article on Voorzij's website is from.

www.voorzij.nl/protesteer-ook-tegen-de-wet-op-de-zelfidentificatie/

OP posts:
Poppydoppy18 · 09/11/2021 08:48

IMO (I’m Dutch) The Netherlands is a rather feminist country so I’m very surprised that this is happening. Although I haven’t lived there in 3 years so everybody might just try and be super ‘woke’ now.

Most Dutch laws, from what I remember, regarding social media and freedom of speech seem to be very outdated so they would probably not support Bunq’s viewpoint.

Double3xposure · 09/11/2021 08:39

Thank you for posting about this - I’d never heard of it before.

Sunlight is always good.

Original poster
Cailleach1 · 09/11/2021 08:37

I don't know. I see that Voorzij are creating an allotment to harvest veg. In order to challenge the decision by this bank.

I don't know what regressive laws for women have been implemented in the Netherlands at the behest of this male entitlement movement. It would be good for someone like Posie or Glinner (or anyone) to have someone on from Voorzij to discuss it.

OP posts: