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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Born in the wrong body

60 replies

jessmin · 08/11/2021 16:19

My DS has used this phrase in relation to people who want to change gender identity. He has been taught at school as part of RSE that “it is possible for someone to change their gender identity if they really really believe they were born in the wrong body”. His words.

I've emailed the head teacher asking to discuss and am reviewing all the guidance from safe schools alliance.

My biggest concern is that I don't know what on earth he has been taught. Their online curriculum map and lesson plan did not mention gender identity or ideology at all. I didn't question the content because I naively thought they were not going there yet. It's Yr4. I now want to review all the material and teaching guidance notes.

I'm also concerned about him having the phrase 'born in the wrong body'. Can you help me explain why it's wrong to use that term? I'm not sure I'm articulate enough to get it across when challenged.

OP posts:
grey12 · 10/11/2021 12:01

Don't see the problem with "wrong body" Hmm the child did not talk at all about disability or body shape/size.

Personally I would definitely NOT be pleased if I had a penis!!!! I would be much more upset about having a penis than I am about being a little chubby or not liking my nose

Also the "wrong" body parts is a very big problem when it comes to, for example, bathrooms and changing rooms!

BloodinGutters · 10/11/2021 11:48

[quote KlaraSun]Sorry about that, here's the right link, it's brilliant: genspect.org/wp-content/uploads/Schools.pdf[/quote]
Thanks I’ll send it. Have passed a long ssa & tt documents and have argued & argued & they are finally sort of listening. But another source will help do ty.

KlaraSun · 10/11/2021 11:46

Sorry about that, here's the right link, it's brilliant: genspect.org/wp-content/uploads/Schools.pdf

BloodinGutters · 10/11/2021 11:19

[quote KlaraSun]Good for you op. You should send the school Genspect's school guidance, that will give them a steer. Most - not all- schools are more clueless than ideological linksharing.samsungcloud.com/avTKBGKsZqoN[/quote]
That link won’t work when I tried it, says expired.

Do you have another one? Or info where to find this?

I’d likely want to send it to school also.

Ty!!

KlaraSun · 10/11/2021 11:13

Good for you op. You should send the school Genspect's school guidance, that will give them a steer. Most - not all- schools are more clueless than ideological linksharing.samsungcloud.com/avTKBGKsZqoN

Artichokeleaves · 09/11/2021 20:20

Well done OP.

Either inclusion is really a thing or it isn't. There are other protected characteristics and telling disabled kids people can be born in the wrong body is just beyond unacceptable.

LonginesPrime · 09/11/2021 19:58

Glad it went well, OP - although it's obviously not great that it happened in the first place, it's very reassuring to know that the school were just a bit clueless as opposed to deliberately pushing that stuff.

IME, it definitely doesn't hurt for the head to know parents are aware of equality law and current guidance - it can only raise standards so you've done them all (and the pupils) a huge favour in pointing them in the right direction.

Binglebong · 09/11/2021 19:52

[quote ArtemesiaK]This must be it, I thought it was longer ago...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1147874.stm[/quote]
I remember that. i think of her sometimes and wonder of it is still her dream or if the role has changed so much in recent years that she now regrets it.

nauticant · 09/11/2021 19:43

Well done for standing up and having your say. People doing that is how we're going to get back to sanity.

jessmin · 09/11/2021 19:25

Update: spoke to head and happy with how it went. Explained how it wasnt within the lesson plan to cover as a topic but was brought up by a child asking questions on the back of another question about pronouns. Pronouns came after a discussion about how families can be made of different people - 2 mums/2 dads etc.

I pointed out the DfE guidelines on born in the wrong body and head is not aware of the 2020 change so has said they will look in to it further and ensure they get it right in future when covering this topic. I explained that a few charities that provide support to schools immediately changed their materials and that there are other organisations that have reviewed all the materials for schools to say whether the comply or not etc. This was all news to him. I think I will follow up with a link to safe schools alliance as a starting point for him. Wink

Thanks for all the advice on this one.

OP posts:
BloodinGutters · 09/11/2021 00:14

@dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

(As a side note- times article with ofsted says 50% of outstanding schools will be loosing that rating in up coming inspections)

I wondered how Ofsted could possibly know this in advance of actually inspecting the schools, unless the criteria for outstanding have changed massively.

I was secretly hoping they might be planning on stamping out 'gender woo'.

I don’t know, but it was in the times, came up on the news but on iPhone.

The article said over 4000 secondaries had outstanding & they expected only half to retain that. That most would drop down to good but some to inadequate. They vaguely referenced the emotional upheaval of lockdown and at the end it referenced the peer on peer abuse report. So I expect the pshe update links into that. Ofsted update how they assess this when d of e updated guidance. But it’s vague and complex how they assess it as it comes under several areas they assess, including the ones that cause serious failures, like meeting social, cultural, moral etc needs of pupils.

Ofsted left stonewall diversity champion scheme earlier this year. The pshe guidance gets reviewed every three years, started last yr, then we got a new education minister, now telegraph are reporting that d of e will be one of the next in the list of those leaving sw, Ed minister is alive to the problems with sw.

So I’d think it’s likely the guidance will be further updated/enforced.

The guidance is still awful. It says in one part to not teach kids are born in wrong body, not reinforce stereotypes. Then in another it says schools must teach with the law in mind with regard to -lists a bunch of things, including gender ideology, which we know isn’t in any law.

So I suspect you’re right. That Ofsted will harshly mark schools because they know there’s serious problems with this. Then after a bit of distance-so they can avoid their blame in it all- d of e will tighten up guidance and de stonewall more, make it clearer for schools so Ofsted can tighten up their criteria again.

Then all anyone will notice is how they fixed this problem in schools. They will be removed enough to avoid all accountability themselves.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 08/11/2021 23:38

(As a side note- times article with ofsted says 50% of outstanding schools will be loosing that rating in up coming inspections)

I wondered how Ofsted could possibly know this in advance of actually inspecting the schools, unless the criteria for outstanding have changed massively.

I was secretly hoping they might be planning on stamping out 'gender woo'.

BloodinGutters · 08/11/2021 21:59

@jessmin

My DS has used this phrase in relation to people who want to change gender identity. He has been taught at school as part of RSE that “it is possible for someone to change their gender identity if they really really believe they were born in the wrong body”. His words.

I've emailed the head teacher asking to discuss and am reviewing all the guidance from safe schools alliance.

My biggest concern is that I don't know what on earth he has been taught. Their online curriculum map and lesson plan did not mention gender identity or ideology at all. I didn't question the content because I naively thought they were not going there yet. It's Yr4. I now want to review all the material and teaching guidance notes.

I'm also concerned about him having the phrase 'born in the wrong body'. Can you help me explain why it's wrong to use that term? I'm not sure I'm articulate enough to get it across when challenged.

It’s wrong for school to use it because the d of e guidance says it’s wrong for them to use it. You don’t even need to argue a case why it’s wrong because it’s in the guidance update that schools had to adopt by sept 2020.

It’s in the d of e plan your relationships, sex and health education curriculum document. Just download it, print off and go into school.

I’d ask for the full curriculum plan for pshe and any/all resources they plan to use also. Be ready to use grievance procedure/escalate to ofsted if needed.

(As a side note- times article with ofsted says 50% of outstanding schools will be loosing that rating in up coming inspections)

LonginesPrime · 08/11/2021 20:06

I remember at the time seeing her in the news and feeling so angry that someone would choose to inflict that hell on themselves, silly girl

I hardly think it's the child's fault -she was 15 at the time and from the difference between the doctor's and the mother's accounts of the need for surgery, it sounds like she might have been coached through it by an adult.

Gingercake2018 · 08/11/2021 19:57

[quote ArtemesiaK]This must be it, I thought it was longer ago...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1147874.stm[/quote]
I am a similar age to her and around the time she was in the news I badly broke my leg and experienced lots of complications. This injury required 4 operations, external fixation, and a very long recovery to fix.

I remember at the time seeing her in the news and feeling so angry that someone would choose to inflict that hell on themselves, silly girl.

Just like the many trans individuals chasing surgery that girl needed counseling not surgery.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 08/11/2021 19:57

'Love the skin you are in' was apparently an Oil of Olay slogan but it is similar to a well known French expression 'to feel good in one's skin'

www.lawlessfrench.com/expressions/bien-dans-sa-peau/

nauticant · 08/11/2021 19:44

Good advice by LonginesPrime. Anything by Safe Schools Alliance UK runs the risk of being dismissed as transphobic. It doesn't matter what the truth is, there are a lot of brainwashed teachers out there.

Also, the potentially indirect discrimination point is an excellent add-on. Any school would be utterly foolish not to wake up when seeing that in writing.

LonginesPrime · 08/11/2021 19:31

I would send the school the government's DfE guidance from September 2021 that a PP linked to, OP.

If you didn't have that to fall back on, then there's safe schools alliance, etc - but no need for that when it looks like the school isn't following the latest government guidance anyway (which they obviously should).

Also, I'd point out that it's potentially indirect discrimination under the Equality Act 2010 on the basis that a disabled child (or child of a disabled parent) is far more significantly disadvantaged by that teaching than a child without a disability (or parent with a disability) being taught the same material.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/11/2021 18:29

A quick link to some of the Safe Schools Alliance factsheets. It's only by challenging schools about this misinformation that this will ever stop.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/

NecessaryScene · 08/11/2021 18:20

I grew up with the 90's mantra 'love the skin you're in' (or was it just a good advertising slogan?

Rachel Rooney did her nice little "My Body Is Me" children's book.

That wasn't an advertising slogan - it was "terrorist propaganda" and "anti-trans extremism", apparently.

jessmin · 08/11/2021 17:34

I'm a disabled mum, I have a genetic condition and it's very likely my son has it too. I've literally spent his whole life very delicately talking about the subject of our bodies and how sometimes they don't work the way they should, we can't change them but we can change our surroundings to make life easier, are in control of how we feel about our bodies etc. I grew up with the 90's mantra 'love the skin you're in' (or was it just a good advertising slogan?Hmm).

OP posts:
jessmin · 08/11/2021 17:30

Thanks everyone for all the replies and I have a great starting point for the discussion now.

@sunkendreams I'm so with you right now. My DS is yr 5 now and this was taught in the last half term of yr4, so June '21. I was so careful to review the material before hand, specifically looking out for this kind of batshittery. I feel let down and as though they have deliberately concealed this from me. It was just an offhand comment from me that led to DS saying this, otherwise I would never have known. And he'd have never have known any different.

OP posts:
Artichokeleaves · 08/11/2021 17:27

Erm, has anyone spoken to the SENDCo about this and how they plan to avoid really distressing disabled pupils? Because they're going to hear all this and they won't get to identify into something happier. Angry

Helleofabore · 08/11/2021 17:27

Definitely contact the schools who are continuing this, they have not updated their course materials. It was pretty clear that telling students they could be born in the wrong body was against last year's updated guidance.

For the very reason it was causing children distress and confusion.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 08/11/2021 17:19

Thank goodness this wasn't happening when my kids were in junior school. I think people seriously need to think about 'voting with their feet' and withdrawing their children from Gender Identity Ideology. If enough parents do this, the schools will have to rethink what they are 'pushing.'

Many of the materials used probably breach the update in guidelines in England and Wales.

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