Born in the wrong body

@Artichokeleaves

#1: never said it was noble

#2: YOU mentioned God first

#3: I said NOTHING about a "right" body. I said a "broken" body (not a great word, just a kid word, check the post)

#4: yes, life/God/mother Earth/wtv gives us wtv body/genetics we have and there isn't too much we can do about it, is there?! Modern medicine isn't has terrible as a few centuries ago but there is a HUGE way to go still to be able to help everyone

[quote KlaraSun]Sorry about that, here's the right link, it's brilliant: genspect.org/wp-content/uploads/Schools.pdf[/quote]
Well done OP. Sadly just yesterday I saw a group of PSHE teachers conferring on FB about Genspect and concluding they were transphobic and to be ignored (guilt by association, Transgender Trend and Graham Lineham support them ergo they are bad). As the kids say 'the struggle is real'.

Please everybody keep challenging and pestering schools. I've had a really good response from dds and my own school, but an awful lot of PSHE teachers and schools are totally in thrall to gender ideology. Parent power is the only thing that can change that.

@Artichokeleaves

You have my sympathy.

I have chronic pain and cfs from eds.

I always find it really disturbing that so many kids are pushed to medical treatment that causes chronic pain as a solution for mental pain.

Do they not realise the damage that is done to mental health by chronic pain? I find that so disturbing and negligent. And I expect my levels of pain are no where near that some live with.

If you think God decided I needed a body that is disintegrating on me, that causes more pain than I can deal with sometimes, that is costing me what it does, for some kind of noble lesson, and you think that's ok to say to me?

And you think that it's fine to say to me and to disabled kids that they must accept the 'lesson' of their body, their soul was born into the 'right' body, but that other kid is born into the wrong body? And you must learn to love the body you hate, but that other kid needs lots of sympathy for hating their body and suggesting that they learn to cope with it is wrong? Especially knowing that sends kids on the route towards surgery, pain, and quite possibly chronic illness that can never be reversed?

You do you.

Leaving this thread, I've found it really shockingly offensive and upsetting. Every time I think I've got used to the fact that everyone else is under the feet of this politics it gets pushed up my nose in a whole new way.

@WipeYourFeet actually I had posted asking WHY everyone was making that connection because I don't see it

@WipeYourFeet since I'm a religious person I would say God chooses the battles you face: he chooses whether you are born to a rich family or a poor one, whether you are born in a peaceful and prosperous country or one at war.

My point from my first post was that I don't see the "wrong" idea being applied to disability and body issues at all. And that was what the whole thread was jumping into instead of talking about transsexual/transgender issues

I think I know what you're trying to say @grey12 but I think it's flawed.
Again , referencing Birdy Rose, why would a higher power give someone a wrong body and another a broken one?!

Your body is your body. If someone's body is "broken" we will try to fix it or compensate for it But why would we want to alter a perfectly healthy body when it is the mind that is ill?
Do we tell anorexics, yes, your body is wrong, go ahead and try to get thinner & thinner? No. We try to treat their mind and help them be comfortable in their own skin.
Just as those with disabilities do, you/I have to work on your(my) mind to become at peace with that with which you(I) must live with.

@Artichokeleaves thinking back to when I was a kid: I would have understood it as a transsexual was born in the wrong body and a disabled person was born in a "broken" body. For me they're different things. (Btw I'm not trying to be PC here, I'm trying to be honest, thinking as a kid back when kids weren't very woke....)

Also by what you said, a disabled person needs to accept they are disabled and therefore a person born male or female needs to accept their birth sex?... (wrong wants to change, broken wants to mend, understand what I mean? I've been told sometimes I don't explain myself too well.....sorry)

Artichokeleaves

Birdy Rose has it right

As part of RSE, parents only have the right to withdraw from the sex aspect (the lessons detailing the physical aspect of sex). No parent can ask for their child to be withdrawn from relationships education, which this issue is. I'm surprised they told you this. Most likely weren't meant to!

[quote grey12]@Artichokeleaves kids need to learn that not everything is about them!!!! so a disabled child is learning about transgender people and hears it as if it's applied to their disability?.... that's a stretch....[/quote]
..........

No, it's seriously not a stretch, and 'not everything is about them' in the context of this hypersensitive political ideology is ridiculous.

If you tell children that sometimes people are born in the wrong body and it makes them very sad and they can identify out of it, how is that not going to be hurtful and distressing for a child stuck in a painful, disabled body that they may very well feel was unfairly inflicted on them and would very much like to be able to identify away from?

How are you going to teach some children that you fix your sadness by changing your body, but other children in the same class that you have to deal with and face and learn to live with what life has handed you however unfair and horrible it is?

I'm staggered you can't see this. I have sat with a sobbing kid with cerebral palsy who is starting to realise their belief that physio and all the muscle injections and surgeries won't ever fix them to the point they have a body like ablebodied people do. This is ridiculously insensitive. If I could identify into a body that could walk and do without pain and let me have a normal life I would do so. Some of us have to lump it and learn to love and deal with the body we've got, however much we hate it.

Are you really saying we should say to disabled kids, anorexic kids, chronically ill kids, YOU have to learn to deal but those kids get to identify out of their sadness about their bodies and have something different and it's not all about you?

OP there is a new statutory PSHE curriculum this year, and your school should have been consulting with parents on the content and teaching format last year - have they been doing this?

This gender stuff does not appear in the new statutory primary PSHE curriculum AFAIK.

Have a look at:
pshe-association.org.uk/curriculum-and-resources/resources/explainer-slides-statutory-pshe-changes-and-new

pshe-association.org.uk/curriculum-and-resources/resources/programme-study-pshe-education-key-stages-1–5

There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body, and teaching young children at a very impressionable age that it is such a thing is cruel and dangerous.

If you've ever seen those videos where little black girls are asked to pick the best or prettiest doll or picture, you'll know how heartbreaking it is to see children internalising what they are shown by society. Those little girls pick the white ones, they know they are seen as lesser from such a young age. It is horrifically sad.

Are we going to tell them they're in the wrong bodies, and kids with disabilities are in the wrong bodies, and we can all just opt out of our bodies if we decide our minds deserve a more popular shell?

Well done OP. We all need to challenge schools who have fallen down this rabbit hole. That genspect paper is very good and alongside the information from Safe Schools Alliance, Transgender Trend there's now lots of information to use to help counter the dangerous misinformation in schools from the queer theory advocates.

I meant as in if I was transwoman I would hate having a penis because I would see it as a part of something I'm not.

But how can you know that? You can feel sympathy but you can't know how you'd feel about your penis if you had been born male and then identified as trans. Plus only 5% of transwomen have genital surgery, it was on a survey done by a transactivist group (GIRES).

Not that I'd wish the surgery on anyone, it's experimental with no set procedure and terrible revision, infection and failure rates, plus lots of maintenance required.

There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body, and teaching young children at a very impressionable age that it is such a thing is cruel and dangerous.

Many children, not just able bodied, neuro typical children go through stages where they are at odds with thier bodies, this is a normal stage of development, responsible adults should not be pathologising that.

I was definitely born in the wrong body. Cindy Crawford got mine in a terrible twist of fate. I don't think I'll ever get over it.

@Artichokeleaves kids need to learn that not everything is about them!!!! so a disabled child is learning about transgender people and hears it as if it's applied to their disability?.... that's a stretch....

@FlyingOink I meant as in if I was transwoman I would hate having a penis because I would see it as a part of something I'm not.

Don't know where the confusion to disability comes from! Like I said, the kid didn't mention anything about that at all. This was never a confusion when I was growing up and we weren't as "woke" as the new generation

Well done for challenging this, OP.

Good for you, OP.

@grey12

Don't see the problem with "wrong body" the child did not talk at all about disability or body shape/size.

Personally I would definitely NOT be pleased if I had a penis!!!! I would be much more upset about having a penis than I am about being a little chubby or not liking my nose

Also the "wrong" body parts is a very big problem when it comes to, for example, bathrooms and changing rooms!

Can you really not see the harm in this for them?

Personally I would definitely NOT be pleased if I had a penis!!!!

How do you know?

You'd have been brought up differently since birth. You'd be a totally different person. Your brain will have formed according to your experiences, which would be different to those which you have experienced.

How do you know if you'd been born a boy you wouldn't be a happy one?

Imagining you've suddenly grown a penis overnight, but nothing else about you has changed, is like some fanfiction porn. It doesn't happen.

You are your body, your body is you, there's no "inner soul" versus "meat suit"* thing. Everything you know and everything you think you know is absorbed and experienced through your physical self.

• I know someone with a chronic condition who likes this way of thinking, but a lot of that is tied up with guilt at being ill.