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Original poster

The nerve of Jon Ronson

159 replies

RoyalCorgi · 07/11/2021 15:45

Jon Ronson has an interview in the Sunday Times (sorry, no share token) about why the culture wars will soon burn out:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jon-ronson-interview-the-culture-wars-will-burn-out-soon-8gsj9wrj0

This is a man who failed to stand up for women who were being bullied on social media and being banned from Twitter for standing up for women's rights. He fell out with Graham Linehan over Linehan's support for women's sex-based rights. Far from being a dispassionate observer of the culture wars, he has actively chosen a side - the wrong side.

OP posts:
OldTurtleNewShell · 09/11/2021 10:12

@midlifecrash

Take it as a straw in the wind. Ron son would not even put his head far enough over the parapet to say “middle ground” if there hadn’t at last been some progress lately
Exactly. He's not stupid. He's had the issues pointed out to him by more than one person IRL a long time ago. He's only going all 'middle ground' now because he thinks he's safe with it. A year ago, he wouldn't have had the balls for it, and in another year, he'll be saying exactly what we're saying now and presenting it as something new. I've lost a lot of respect for people as a result of this issue. He's one of them.
nauticant · 09/11/2021 10:02

The first programme came across as Adam Curtis lite.

BraveBananaBadge · 09/11/2021 09:57

Ronson has unearthed some weird and wonderful stories in his time and I always admired him. But this goes to show he's not averse to pushing his own version of events rather than report on what he sees and it does make me question him now. Will catch up with this.

Discontentedpony · 09/11/2021 09:44

I used to really like Jon Ronson but he is now ruined for me.

This discussion is so interesting and so eloquently puts into words what I cannot coherently express myself.

nauticant · 09/11/2021 09:03

Here we go, it's just starting.

midlifecrash · 08/11/2021 09:43

Take it as a straw in the wind. Ron son would not even put his head far enough over the parapet to say “middle ground” if there hadn’t at last been some progress lately

terryleather · 08/11/2021 09:42

@nauticant

The problem with having a discussion is that it's not simply different perspectives on the same thing but it's two largely separate conversations, one based in material reality and the other based on self-perception, with the latter actively rejecting material reality. What is the "middle ground" is such a situation?
Exactly this.

I've had enough of the blahblahblah, to paraphrase Helen Joyce - we just need to win.

FindTheTruth · 08/11/2021 09:36

TWEET
Mic Wright
@brokenbottleboy
·
7 Nov
The most maddening thing about this Jon Ronson interview is the pretence that he is ‘above’ the politics of the issues he’s discussing. He is Hundred points symbol not. It’s the classic claim to cold rationalism while the angles are absolutely apparent

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/11/2021 09:31

Because expecting them to care about women and girls for our own sake is too much to ask, obviously.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/11/2021 09:30

Yes, I think that's why people are so angry about the existence of people (mostly women) who put their liberal rationalist credentials in jeopardy by showing trans activism up for the misogynistic entitlement based on pseudoscience that it is.

RoyalCorgi · 08/11/2021 09:25

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/11/2021 09:17

Agree, nauticant.

nauticant · 08/11/2021 09:16

The problem with having a discussion is that it's not simply different perspectives on the same thing but it's two largely separate conversations, one based in material reality and the other based on self-perception, with the latter actively rejecting material reality. What is the "middle ground" is such a situation?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/11/2021 09:07

He is a prick, but there's clearly a lot of cognitive dissonance going on which he's resistant to anyone cutting through.

Manderleyagain · 08/11/2021 08:59

I had some hopes that he might start to understand the pov of the womem who are objecting to self id etc. At about the time it all blew up with GL he got into a twitter convo with Gia Milinivich. They obviously knew each other personally and he was saying it was odd to find himself in the other side from ppl who he knew and otherwise was on the same page as. They took it off twitter so I hoped he would at least understand & not dismiss, if not agree. The weird thing about this 'debate' though is it seems almost impossible for people to understand the other person's perspective & disagree on the issue. There is only agree & understand fully, or disagree & dismiss as incomprehensible. Its extraordinary.

I haven't read his 2015 book but this series sounds interesting. I'll give it a go.

nauticant · 08/11/2021 08:33

Ronson is being interviewed on the Today programme on Radio 4 and his central thesis is that a culture war is the battle of dominance between conflicting values.

The way he's talking about this, it seems that the problem is silly people who've got the wrong end of the stick and the solution is nice people being nice.

Things Fell Apart starts tomorrow at 9am on Radio 4.

PeriChristmas · 07/11/2021 20:18

@NoThankYouSaurus

You should hear him whinge and moan in the first programme about his ID being stolen for a fake Twitter account. Yet the identity of womenkind being stolen? Nada. He's a prick.
Yup
GoIntoTheLight · 07/11/2021 17:52

Is that true what Graeme L says - that he didn’t weigh in on the JK stuff?! Says a lot given that he was all over anyone else being social media shamed.

LaPufalina · 07/11/2021 17:50

I just skimmed it, irritated. I used to love him!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/11/2021 17:45

Ah found it, it’s at the end of the News Review bit .

FindTheTruth · 07/11/2021 17:40

"The journalist who saw cancel culture coming before anyone else"

UGH! self congratulatory man. He doesn't care about the cancelled so he's not an expert on cancel culture

FindTheTruth · 07/11/2021 17:38

thanks for starting this thread OP. he has got a bloody nerve.

ArtemesiaK · 07/11/2021 17:36

Wow, that big girl in the photo! (and the looks on the faces of the rest of the team) How can anyone think that's OK!?...

Original poster
RoyalCorgi · 07/11/2021 17:30

Was there any point to the article other than (self) promoting Ronson as the sane, calm, cool voice of reason unlike , well, anyone else who isn't Ronson?

No, I don't think so. I'd stake a large sum on Ronson's coverage of the trans debate in his new R4 programme focusing on hysterical feminists getting irrationally angry. The words "extremists on both side" and "toxic debate" will almost certainly be uttered.

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