The nerve of Jon Ronson

Today's episode was about a lost soul, Isaac Kappy, drawn into QAnon conspiracy theories, how it led to his death, and then how then how his death itself became incorporated into the conspiracy theory.

It was an interesting but depressing listen. I can get my head around how some conspiracy theories might appeal to people but how anyone would choose to go for the QAnon one mystifies me.

If one of the Michfest organisers had murdered two Camp-Trans attendees and their son, I suspect it would be an important part of this narrative, but Ronson and others don't mention the killing of Michfest attendees Patricia Wright and Charlotte Reed and their son Benny Diambu-Wright by Camp-Trans organiser Dana Rivers.
I wonder why not.

He spoke at how angry the gender debate had become but didn't point out that all the angry clips he played were of TRAs shouting and harassing women.

That is a mad way to frame it considering his programme is literally about Michfest. Michfest is ground zero of TRAs showing up at women's gatherings to shout at and harass them.

The "debate" hasn't got angrier. The "debate" has got bigger. The number of angry shouty males harassing women for having boundaries has got much larger, but the Camp Trans protestors weren't less bad than the ones screaming at women and rattling windows outside women's meetings today. They were exactly the same type of person.

Now that I've put it like that - same degree of anger but a lot more males are displaying it - a disturbing question occurs. Is genderism, as an ideology, causing males to become the type of angry misogynist who stands outside women's gatherings and bangs on the window to harass and intimidate the women inside?

Culture Wars are often complex and have many inputs. For each Culture War Ronson takes one strand and one or two individuals, and presents a very narrow interpretation of what happened to create the Culture War and what it's about.

In the case of yesterday's programme, Ronson created a version of the trans Culture War in which it originated in the fight against racism leading to an expanded set of rights and now there are all these Second Wave feminists who are angry about more rights for more people.

He does this to create his own narrative which suppresses inconvenient facts in order to appeal to a particular audience. In the case of yesterday's programme, it doesn't take much imagination to see what kind of story he was intending to get across.

That episode was a bit meh. There was some interesting stuff in it, and if I didn't know anything about it it i would have found it v interesting. But it was shallow and I still don't think ronson understands this well.

It makes me wonder if it's a similarly shallow snapshot in all of these programmes.

He seems to have absolutely no empathy for how natal women feel.

Yet another bloke telling women how to think.

He spoke at how angry the gender debate had become but didn't point out that all the angry clips he played were of TRAs shouting and harassing women. Women don't shout abuse at and harass trans conferences and meetings. We believe more in free speech and people being allowed to express different opinions. Intersectional feminism started well but was then used as a way to berate women for not being kind enough and not putting others first and that included transwomen and feminism was back where it started with everyone having to know their place on the privilege hierarchy

He is pleased the most recent episode hasn't made waves.
I don't know. On the one hand, he has seen first-hand what happened to people who were publicly shamed. On the other, he wants to stay neutral and protect his career and family - which I can and do understand.
Yet, what constitutes free speech and the emergence of cancel culture are a huge part of these culture wars and even if you are interested in origin stories of three decades ago, it doesn't adequately reflect the vitriol happening now and nor was it told warts and all.
David Baddiel's documentary this week on social media's downside was engaging.

He does really want to be liked.

A few years ago he would take a strong line on issues that were important to him on social media but not anymore.

As pp said, he's talked about his mental health issues before and I think confrontation and not being in control is a big part of this.

Which might sound strange from an investigative journalist, but his friendly, curious, nonjudgmental persona is a big part of why people talk to him.

Also, he records waaaaay more than airs and the editing of the episodes and heavy use of voiceover gives him very precise control of the narrative.

I don't think I could really guess what his personal views of the stuff like prisons, sport etc is but unfortunately like Neil Gaiman et al the lack of personal skin in the game makes it easy to handwave.

Jon Ronson's twitter feed is disappointing - I have lost respect for the man, which is a shame, as I have all his books.
I know he suffers from anxiety but some of the comments and questions he has been asked were fair and phrased politely - no hint of aggression. No longer there. Either his ego is fragile, his anxiety extends to any debate on the topic whatsoever or he just hates having his journalistic integrity/intent called into question. The most balanced criticisms gone. He did use Germaine Greer in his trailer too, so happy to trade off her. His aim to find the 'origin story' limits the episode intentionally.
Someone wrote that they wished there could be a whole series on the trans issue alone, Ronson replied, ''Well, I won't be the one making it.''

I assume that the Dana Rivers case could not be mentioned as it is ongoing: the next hearing is allegedly this Thursday 16th.
Dana Rivers (formerly David Chester Warfield) is accused of killing
Patricia & Charlotte Reed by multiple stab wounds and bullets and shooting their son Benny, 19. Rivers was allegedly found blood-soaked and armed with multiple blades, metal knuckles and firearms. They are also accused of attempted arson.
Rivers/Warfield had a history of protesting the Michigan Women’s Music Festival (MWMF) as part of “Camp Trans”. The lesbian victims are reported to have been regular attendees of MWMF for many years.
(all the above posted with links by green myrtle on reddit)
Five years since the murders took place. As a new doctor's report is mentioned, I assume there are psych evaluations ongoing?

No mention of the murder of one of Michfest founders , along with her partner and son - by a trans 'woman'. Glinner 1. Ronson 0.

I was a bit scared to listen in case transwomen=lovely, women=evil. It wasn't quite that bad, but I think anyone who wasn't informed about the issue as it is now would be quite confused. The cited origins seem to have little connection to what's going on now in the UK. It was a bit meh (as the young folk used to say a few years ago)....

The episode ''Many different stories'' did not properly debate the issues at all, even in the limitations given by the narrative structure.
It was a complete cop-out and given Ronson is a journalist, he has balked at doing a proper deep dive.
Instead it acted as a history 101 with half of it being spent on explaining intersectional feminism, before concentrating on Nancy Jean Burkholder's experience at the Michigan Womyn's festival in 1991. Nancy herself then becoming isolated from Camp Trans for agreeing penises were triggering and being accused of privilege by pre-op transwomen for having been able to afford bottom surgery.
It ends in Nancy watching from the sides: she knows only what it is like to be her. Having stated she does not claim to know how women feel, she goes on to say her psyche is expressed in the female role.
No discussion of what said definition means. No discussion on sports, jails, hostels, massage/waxing, transgender umbrella encompassing everything now, or any kind of statistics on either side of the debate. Just a pithy summary sentence of bigots versus predators to sum up.
I thought in the trailer that Germaine Greer was used.
Jon Ronson has blocked the person, who tweeted him the bingo card
nor replied to the criticism that he shirked addressing why anyone might have any concerns about self ID.

That episode was a bit meh. There was some interesting stuff in it, and if I didn't know anything about it it i would have found it v interesting. But it was shallow and I still don't think ronson understands this well.

Negatives were:
Both sides!
No explanation of why some ppl want to change the gra, and why others strongly object, ie the implications.
Nancy's story summed up the shift from transsexual to trans gender and self id. But that wasn't explained or contextualised. Ronson assumed that the 'pre op transsexual women' were only pre op because they couldn't afford it, rather than the broadening of what trans means. The listener is still missing that important context to the whole culture war.
No interview with a 'terf' or did I miss that?

Positives were:
Placing it in the history of the waves of feminism.
The word "terf" being taken on as an insult and showing the aggression.
Quite a clear explanation of the proposed change to the gra, (but narrow.)

Could have been worse. Could have been better.

The series on the rise of free internet porn via the "Tubes" (YouPorn, PornHub etc) and the knock on effect of that on the industry and wider society was really interesting. From teens with erectile dysfunction to young women sliding down the porn star ladder to more and more extreme acts as they "age out" of mainstream.

Isn't Robson obsessed with porn?

There's a whole chapter on him visiting a porn set in one of his books (might even be So You've Been Publicly Shamed) and he did a podcast about a porn star who died.

All in the guise of "journalism" of course.

I'm shocked by the Michfest story. Literally nothing women have is sacred.

He really should have signed off with:

"So remember women, this is why you need to be kind."

Glossed over rather a lot there Jon.

Women's sport?

Children's health?

Women's prison?

Sex v gender debate?

Why all the death threats to women?

It's a program about where the term terf came from.

Well at least the term is trending for exactly the reasons michfest had issues with.

Has Ron spoken to trans women that agree with women that they're not women??

No. Resistance to racism led to third wave feminism, third wave feminism led to trans inclusion, and now we have the culture war. That's it. I know it's only 30 minutes but this is the most one dimensional fragmentary treatment you could imagine.

The key outrage of this programme is Nancy Burkholder being told to leave Michfest and then campaigning with third wave feminists against the festival being a women's single sex space.

It turns out that Nancy Burkholder left the campaign when it changed into pushing for pre-op trans people to be permitted to attend the festival.

At least Nancy recognises penises women among women isn't appropriate.