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Original poster

MS are handing out pronoun badges to their staff

380 replies

PostingForTheFirstTime · 07/11/2021 09:09

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10173649/M-S-diversity-managers-staff-pronoun-badges-customers-know-address-them.html

I will be emailing the appropriate departments advising them that gender ideology is still a hot political topic; its decision to allow men to use women's changing rooms made me so uncomfortable that I will not shop for clothes in their stores any more, but its decision to push a political stance with which I fundamentally disagree means I won't be using them at all from now on.

So sad, because I love their trousers and their Christmas party foods.

OP posts:
twelly · 07/11/2021 09:54

Just another example of a large corporation pandering to this bizarre agenda

Original poster
PostingForTheFirstTime · 07/11/2021 09:53

@CatherinaJTV

why are you getting all upset about a decision that has been made by employees for employees?
It produces conditions for conflict.

The decision to support pronouns is itself political, and pertains to a hot political topic.

I do not support gender ideology, and do not want to go shopping in an institution where they care so much about this issue to openly support it. And I really do not want a shopping trip for Percy Pigs to become an opportunity to misgender someone and get a police record for a non-hate crime.

In 40+ years of shopping in M&S I cannot remember many occasions where I've had to use a staff member's pronouns. And now suddenly it is an issue for M&S staff?

OP posts:
LonginesPrime · 07/11/2021 09:53

When are customers going to be referring to shop staff using pronouns?

If I'm directed to speak to another member of staff by Roger, it doesn't help me to say "your colleague told me to come and talk to you" if it's important for them to know which colleague - either the colleague's actual identity matters (e.g. because Roger is the manager and this customer service person works for Roger) or their identity is irrelevant as they were just pointing me in the right direction and no-one gives a shit who told me to talk to some other member of staff.

This doesn't help customers in any way - it does what David Parke says in the article- it enables M&S staff to be evangelists and start conversations with customers about their philosophical beliefs around gender ideology on behalf of M&S.

I don't want to have a political conversation while I'm buying knickers and a loaf of bread, thanks.

CatherinaJTV · 07/11/2021 09:52

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

Change the perception of women, so that pronouns would not be perceived as an invitation to discriminate.

The only way to do that would be to make their pronouns irrelevant

no, the best way to do that would be to squash the patriarchy and its associated assumptions. People would not have preconceptions regarding my abilities or behaviours and I would still be a woman.
Whitefire · 07/11/2021 09:52

What purpose do they serve? I mean on the coal face, when Clara is scanning my shopping why do I need to know that Clara's pronouns are she/her? How is that going to improve customer service or even the perception of it?

If the likes of M&S think that the only way to make people feel safe is to wear a badge with pronouns on then they have major issues that need looking at first.

bordermidgebite · 07/11/2021 09:51

Yes we would love it if the perception of woman was changed to avoid discrimination

Kind of the point of feminism

Until that happens I will refuse to advertise my sex .

AliceThorpe · 07/11/2021 09:51

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Chrysanthemum5 · 07/11/2021 09:50

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer yup not a hope I'm seeing pronouns on a badge! Still not sure about the context in which a customer would use 'Him' in a standard conversation

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 07/11/2021 09:50

Change the perception of women, so that pronouns would not be perceived as an invitation to discriminate.

The only way to do that would be to make their pronouns irrelevant

Chrysanthemum5 · 07/11/2021 09:49

Ah yes @CatherinaJTV it does say 'Him' I had misread it.

CatherinaJTV · 07/11/2021 09:48

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

How about we change perception of women, rather than be triggered by someone showing their pronouns into absolutely inappropriate behaviour?

Change the perception of women to include men and therefore become a nonsense word?
Or
Change the perception of women so that gender is not at all important in how we views people’s ability to do a job? In which case, pronoun tags would be harmful.

Change the perception of women, so that pronouns would not be perceived as an invitation to discriminate.
RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 07/11/2021 09:47

@Chrysanthemum5

This is an aside but the badge in the article has He/Hirry/Him. That's a new one to me - in what context would Hirry be used?
Youre like me then

Never going to spot it without glasses 😀

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 07/11/2021 09:46

How about we change perception of women, rather than be triggered by someone showing their pronouns into absolutely inappropriate behaviour?

Change the perception of women to include men and therefore become a nonsense word?
Or
Change the perception of women so that gender is not at all important in how we views people’s ability to do a job? In which case, pronoun tags would be harmful.

CatherinaJTV · 07/11/2021 09:46

@Chrysanthemum5

This is an aside but the badge in the article has He/Hirry/Him. That's a new one to me - in what context would Hirry be used?
it says he/HIM/his
Chrysanthemum5 · 07/11/2021 09:44

This is an aside but the badge in the article has He/Hirry/Him. That's a new one to me - in what context would Hirry be used?

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 07/11/2021 09:42

Depends on how ‘encouraging’ they are going to be really

And quite obviously a minority of employees have requested it but it shouldn’t be required of all employees

If someone wants their pronouns on their badge then ok, shouldn’t need ‘encouragement’

NancyDrawed · 07/11/2021 09:42

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken * I thought the same.

'By employees, for employees'? Or by direction from above to gain SW points?

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 07/11/2021 09:39

@CatherinaJTV

why are you getting all upset about a decision that has been made by employees for employees?
It’s a problem to enforce an ideological belief on all the staff when some may be uncomfortable or downright offended by it.
CatherinaJTV · 07/11/2021 09:39

@KittenKong

I must take a wander I to my local. If I spot one I shall point say ‘no thank you’ and walk out.
that's totally normal Hmm
KittenKong · 07/11/2021 09:37

I must take a wander I to my local. If I spot one I shall point say ‘no thank you’ and walk out.

CatherinaJTV · 07/11/2021 09:37

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Isn’t that likely to put trans staff at greater risk of abuse from customers? Seems bonkers to me.
Seriously?! The default reaction to a trans person is not, nor should we expect it to be "abuse". And if it was, this was something to really work on, because no one has deserved "abuse" for their sex or gender.

I mean, one of the arguments that women don't want to put their pronouns into their emails is that they are taken less seriously. How about we change perception of women, rather than be triggered by someone showing their pronouns into absolutely inappropriate behaviour?

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 07/11/2021 09:35

Im not even sure it is a conversation starter

Did he mean conversations within the organisation?

Cos I can’t see how it would work for customers…to be honest I doubt id see it without my glasses

CatherinaJTV · 07/11/2021 09:33

why are you getting all upset about a decision that has been made by employees for employees?

BraveBananaBadge · 07/11/2021 09:28

Sounds as if corporate bods saw it as an easy win for 'diversity and inclusion'. Not much info in the story but sounds optional and hope it is.

I buy online from M&S but would swerve someone with a pronoun badge in any store, so perhaps not the 'conversation starter' they want it to be.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/11/2021 09:27

Isn’t that likely to put trans staff at greater risk of abuse from customers?
Seems bonkers to me.

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