MS are handing out pronoun badges to their staff

FFS what is there problem? They need to focus on knickers!

😁

You old bright side seeker you!

Which then means that pronouns become valueless in communication and so die out altogether

Hum , almost talking myself into supporting this!

What she said.

actually, what is just nasty is that a discussion about pronouns on name badges of supermarket staff invariably ends in discussions about male rapists - most people will actually not associate a "Harry (he/him/his)" badge with rape.

It is absolutely relevant because it’s part of a wider discussion.

Being coerced or bullied into stating our gender on our emails/ name badges etc. is part of the ideology that someone’s gender has more significance than any other part of their identity, including their sex. It is this ideology that then leads to males being in female prisons.

I don't think there is a clearer illustration of how much this is about power and control.

Oh! I see.

Enforced language.

You really don't see it do you?

Burn the witch, indeed!

Another hard of thinking.

If you deliberately avoid using pronouns because that person prefers pronouns other than the ones you think they should be using then you're transphobic. It's about intent. For example if you think they should use he/him but they prefer they/them and so you avoid using their pronouns at all.

And it's so plainly said you'd think those stating it would hesitate. But no...

FaaarkinEll

Tying yourself in knots to avoid using someone's preferred pronouns is transphobic

You've been tying yourself in knots to come up with convoluted and imaginary situations where pronouns would be used.

we didn't talk about trans women at all, we talked about women putting their pronouns and how others have preconceptions regarding women's compentencies and behaviours. You may have missed it, but the argument that putting pronouns puts (cis) women at risk is quite frequently used here.

Ah, you’ve gone for simple avoidance.
To be fair, it says so much more about your illogical, inconsistent stance than any of your other waffle.

Samphire , isn't that the definition of witch again ?

I reject the gender binary

I also reject the idea that gender should ever be used , highlighted or assumed because I reject the gender binary

Thus I reject the idea that pronouns signal gender

Because it's not rejecting gender binary , it's playing Into it

It's making gender important when it should be rejected

So... I get it wrong, I am transphobic; I make an effort not to get it wrong, I am transphobic.

That just about sums it up, doesn't it?

Try reading.

You try reading. Or caring about the rights of women and girls. Or having one iota of critical thought.

Tying yourself in knots to avoid using someone's preferred pronouns is transphobic.

Too bad, because I won't ever be calling males, "she" and no one can make me. Compelled speech is really not something you should be advocating for. If the pendulum swung back the other way, would you want to be compelled to say things that go against your strongly held beliefs?

But this attitude of looking for a fight, instantly boycotting anything to do with M&S, gleefully writing angry emails of complaint? This is all behaviour I associate with TRAs, and I'm not going to be part of that.

Any person, female or otherwise, should be free to boycott any brand or company they wish to, for any (or no) reason.

Similarly, anyone should be free to write a letter/email of complaint to any company they wish to.

If you don't agree and you don't want to boycott a company or complain to them, then that's fine.

But shaming other women into staying silent and not grumbling because you don't want to is intolerant and manipulative - it's a common tool of the patriarchy in keeping women down.

You can do what you like, but so can everyone else.

You were shopping, a woman served you and you panicked because you referred to her as female, using the most common form of address for a woman?

Give your head a wobble. Hopefully it will dislodge the ludicrous fears that have crept in

Try reading.

It does no harm to respect how people uncomfortable with a gender binary, or transitioning, would like to be referred to and yet some people can't even manage that, because transwomen in prison or some bullshit.

Actually Caterina it was someone who supports pronoun badges who brought up the topic of males who identify as women being housed alongside women in female prisons.

It was someone who agrees with you who raised the non sequitur of "transwomen in prison or some bullshit" and handwaved it away, Catherina. Try to keep up.

Tying yourself in knots to avoid using someone's preferred pronouns is transphobic.

And I referred to the transwomen in jail as some bullshit because its got absolutely nothing to do with shop workers wearing pronoun badges and I found it distasteful in the extreme that someone would draw that equivalence. But you go off.

You may have missed it, but the argument that putting pronouns puts (cis) women at risk is quite frequently used here.

At risk of discrimination bin the work place, for having their sex highlighted, usually in male oriented work places.

Anyone can tell men from women in real life. So pronouns.on a badge won't add any information for the vast majority of staff. But it will highlight those who choose to step out from the norm. When done by someone else it's r ferr d to as 'outing' and is recognised as being unwanted. Only with gender ideology does that get reversed.

Why is that? Do you know?