LGBTQ training at work

they recognise that some people due to 'cultural or religious' reasons need 'single gender' spaces

Well at least it means that they don’t encourage sticking an “all genders” sign on the door of the ladies’! But are TW to use the neutral space or the “single gender” space?

If the neutral space is also for “binary trans people” then that’s a huge step forward.

If they start on toilets, discuss the clash between disabled/ill people needing a gap under the door to alert someone they have collapsed. My close family member can end up on the floor with no warning - so the gender free closed cubicles and disabled loos are no good because they have doors down to the floor. Also health and safety in a fire - if the gender-free door is locked, what do you do if you are trying to clear the area quickly?

Good luck OP! Let us know how it goes.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ca314b74-6918-11e9-b5dd-262daa867e56?shareToken

Here's a share token for the Times article in case it's useful.

Good luck challenging it.

11. A Barrister ( such as Naomi Cunningham of @legalfeminist) can give a view on whether the training is lawful. Related case: University gender course offered by Advance HE is unlawful, barrister says

12. Campaign and crowdfund to stop employer “totalitarian and unlawful” training, that “promotes a controversial view of sex and gender” and constitutes “direct discrimination on grounds of philosophical belief,” and therefore would breach equality legislation.

[quote severnboring]Good luck OP - director of Diversity Trust has a long history of misogynist abuse and trying to shut down women meeting to discuss their rights:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-used-violent-transgender-activist-for-equality-training-x0mktgclw

medium.com/@elsaegret/abusive-misogynist-activist-writes-nhs-policy-in-bristol-21dd02cc4c9c

medium.com/@elsaegret/stitch-up-bristol-fashion-f1eb298e28da[/quote]
This is evidence to attach to your request to your employer to cancel the training. Things have gone way past 'be nice' and 'let's discuss it' stage. request that they cancel the training, give the reasons why, and ask why would they NOT cancel it after learning this?

You could

1. request in writing that they cancel the training
2. it's a philosophical/religious/political belief - not neutral
3. Maya's case shows that disagreeing with this belief is protected in law and employees should not be compelled to be trained in it
4. request neutral training that respects all human rights
5. attach a document of the abuse and impacts of this 'training' to your request to cancel the meeting
6. and keep a record of all conversations
7. if they persist and go ahead with the 'training', contact women's groups to get advice on what to do in the meeting and afterwards
8. go to the meeting and document /record everything
9. share what is said with women's groups and write a response
10. follow-up in writing with your response and document all conversations

You could ask how those with gender critical beliefs will be protected as is the law, as the Forstater case recently confirmed. A really good summary by her lawyers here.
lionsheadlaw.co.uk/a-gender-critical-belief-is-a-philosophical-belief-which-is-entitled-to-be-protected-under-the-equality-act-2010/
This should be enough to make organisations think twice about who they use for this sort of "training".

PS the CCG only carried out the EIA and raised objections to the Diversity Trust / SARI guidance after they got a lot of complaints from women (including mumsnetters) and groups working with vulnerable groups eg domestic abuse support.

The Diversity Trust wrote the Trans guidance with SARI for the Bristol and North Somerset CCG. However, the Equality Impact Assessment demonstrated their guidance was discriminatory to other protected groups (and would harm women, older people and children) and in the end the NHS CCG said they would not agree to it. The Sari/ Diversity Trust refused to change it, and would not recognise women as a sex, despite the Equality Act, which they prefer to deny/ ignore, nor the safeguarding needs of children esp girls, nor lesbians as a same sex attracted group/.

Here's a link to the carefully worded newspaper article
www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/health/health-chiefs-not-endorse-trans-5628804

and if you look back on the threads about the Bristol CCG trans guidance from a year or 2 ago you will find access to the full horrors of their proposed guidance , including the Equality Impact assessment, and more information about Diversity Trust leadership.

[quote BrassyLocks]@EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn

If they talk about preferred pronouns / gender identities / gender neutral spaces being LGBTQ friendly, maybe ask how they’re friendly to the L? Far too often LGBTQ just means T.

Good point, but what kind of answer would I be looking for? I mean, how would they show that they are lesbian friendly?[/quote]
Also good point. Not with bloody rainbow lanyards!

Depending on how strong your views are and how brave you are.

There is some commentary around things like pronouns etc, which argue that it is not just compelled speech, but actually goes against human right of freedom of belief and freedom to express that belief.

Nevertheless, persistent/deliberate misgendering could (rightly IMO) be construed as harassment.

See here:

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/pronouns/

womansplaceuk.org/2021/06/27/share-pronouns-at-work/

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/07/27/misgendering-and-harassment/

If they talk about preferred pronouns / gender identities / gender neutral spaces being LGBTQ friendly, maybe ask how they’re friendly to the L? Far too often LGBTQ just means T.

A Muslim woman may need to adjust her head scarf though.

[quote BrassyLocks]@SolasAnla
Thanks for those facts, which I will include in my notes. The reason I gave Muslim women as an example is because of the requirement for 5 daily prayers, meaning a Muslim woman would need to uncover herself in the washroom, so it's more likely to be a problem for her than for other religious women. In a changing room at a swimming pool for example, the requirement would apply to a larger range of religious women. I'm trying to focus my thinking around our work context.[/quote]
I wouldn't use that as an example: Muslim women aren't required to pray and the ritual washing is of the feet, hands and face.

Having attended diversity and equality training on many occasions I have found them quite intolerant - one example where the LBGTQ issues were highlighted, the session was about equality for all yet neglected to included religion. On another occassion the trainer spoke and avidly about race rights , LBGTQ rights yet blasphemed throughout but highlighted islamophobia. On another occasion the trainer openly used the word biggot for anyone who voted for UKIP , whilst on another occasion the trainer spoke about views people held rather than thier actions - ie no-one was allowed a view that wasn't the current agenda that they were highlighting.

I agree that we should treat people equally and not discriminate - but that applies to all aspects including religion and political views. What is more people are allowed different views - a firm pays people to act in a certain way, what people think is up to them.

training is supposed to advise on how to interact with LGBTQ clients

Call clients by their name in meetings.

Use initials Jane Doe > JD or our client/service user rather than he/she in written communications.
This eliminates the possibility of complaints.

Employees provide a service on behalf of the employer therefore he/she/they are never appropriate. The only pronoun would be we (when writing on behalf of the org) or you plural/ named employee +initials from the client

Ditto if it's staff, professional courtesy but also gives a clear written record of who is responsible to action what.

If there is need to look at single sex provision to decide to exclude/include an individual from a service using initials rather than sex pronouns forces the responsible party making the decision to start by ask the relevant question around sex and work through the policy from a neutral position.
Decision trees using Y/N styles are easy to implement
Adding in a "Don't know ask manager" should trigger the question going back up the management chain.
This removes the ad-hoc element where 2 clients with the same issue are treated differently which is possible discrimination.

Tell them you have become aware of Ls who are on the receiving end Of abuse from the TQs, cite the names of Kathleen Stock, Jo Phoenix and others.

Then ask them how their diversity training assures respect for all.