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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex/gender words - English vs Romance languages

28 replies

IamAporcupine · 02/11/2021 13:10

I am getting all muddled up with words. Maybe other bilingual posters can tell me if this happnes in their language too?

In English:
Sex: male/female (of any species), and in particular, for humans, boy/girl and man/woman.
Gender (when used 'correctly' and not instead of the word sex, as in 'gender scan'): masculine/femenine

Now in my native language (Spanish)
Sexo: macho/hembra, and then for humans: hombre/mujer
(although I did have an interesting discussion yesterday with a vegan who was calling cows (vacas) 'women bovine'...)

Genero: masculino/femenino

So far so good.

But we do say 'sexo femenino' and 'sexo masculino' (direct translations would be 'femenine sex' and 'masculine sex') when referring to women and men, respectively. As expected, the discussion re the meaning of the word woman gets even more confusing.

Also, because the language is so gendered (eg we have femenine/masculine objects too), we have gender agreement rules, where articles, pronouns and adjectives match the gender of the noun. For inanimate objects, this is just a gramatical convention. For animate ones, it becomes obvious that we are in fact referring to the sex of the animal/person (eg la vaca lechera ), yet we still call this gender.

In addition, because of the above, you do use gendered words (mainly adjectives) when talking directly to the person. Which also makes the discussion about pronouns more difficult.

Can anyone relate to this?

OP posts:
Chersfrozenface · 02/11/2021 14:19

Not a Romance language but a Celtic one - in Welsh a new word has had to be coined for 'gender' in the recent sense. 'Sex' is 'rhyw' which also means 'kind, type, sort' as a noun. 'Gender' in its original linguistic and grammatical sense is 'cenedl' which also means 'nation'. Hence the need for a neologism - take the word for 'sex' and stick a suffix on it, getting 'rhywedd'.

NecessaryScene · 02/11/2021 14:09

This thing is so English-focused, that any sort of different language breaks it.

In a lot of languages this stuff really doesn't work well. Many don't have a spare "sex-like" word like "gender" to help obfuscate. "Gender identity" might have to be translated as "sex identity", rather scuppering all the neo-genders.

And even in a language that doesn't have grammatical or pronoun gender at all, they're still not happy.

Sex/gender words - English vs Romance languages
chillied · 02/11/2021 13:36

Really interested in this OP because for all the nuanced agony in English - does woman now mean gender so a woman can be of the male sex (not my belief, but the current most PC interpretation) I often wonder, how does this even look in different languages?

Is there a Neutral article/ adjective ending that's the equivalent of They? Or is that impossible and therefore a minefield?

It's all a big sign to have simple language and no fucking with the definition of woman