Terry Gilliam show cancelled

MN converted my shock to a grin!

TG has been fave director for years.

Twelve monkeys FFS! Brazil.

Up to individuals surely.

I avoid Depp, Kubrick. Even though some films v good/ faves.
Think w Goldberg horrible.
Mel G yikes no thanks.
Don't turn off TV radio for Jackson even though imo totally did the things.
Etc etc.

Everyone has their own lines.

Mark gatiss- LOG though.
Blackface
Creepy abusive religious types
Nasty take on female bodies
Tubbs original series read to me as controlled by Edward and learning disabilities and trapped
Casual approach to rape
Papa lazarou traveling taking women. ?
Can't remember it all!

It was fab but mark G has loads more ???!!! than Gilliam bogstandard comments...

His views about metoo / straight white men being hard done by/ black lesbian get all the special treatment then (in the 80s it was one legged black lesbian hoho haha) is totally bog standard from well... Sorry. Straight white men who have decent money etc...

I mean it's not exactly an unusual view is it. News articles, workmates, so many workmates... Politicians, opinions types. Not new. Not great obv. But hardly extreme and unusual and woah!

There are so so many in the past and now that have done really shit things.

Some cause questions about should eg their work stand prominently. Many well. Up to individuals really how they feel, does the awful things about the artist make them unable to enjoy the art.

Cancelling? For a totally unexceptional view?

I'm :o

And there are us old dinosaurs, thinking it should challenge us!

I imagine the view that #MeToo has turned into a witch hunt is actually pretty mainstream. Attempting to tackle this view by instigating a witch hunt against anyone who voices it is such a stupid, self defeating move that it makes me want to retire to my bed with headphones and a good book for the rest of my life.

Minimising that should say

#MeToo was rolled right into cancel culture in a lot of ways, and the response to this might be related to that. Because whenever anyone with some kind of weight of celebrity or authority straight out challenges cancel culture certain people get very twitchy about it.

I don't know where anyone came up with this expectation that people they work with would share their views.

EsmaCannonball
One of the comments that got Gilliam cancelled by the Old Vic was his joke about identifying as 'a black lesbian.' I was merely commenting that had he seriously claimed this, instead of joking about it, the Old Vic may have treated him very differently

Fair enough and I now see what you mean in a way albeit, they manage to have no Black staff at all so what odds 'Black lesbian..' when Old Vic are visibly discrimating against Black people? & Arts Council knowing this, still fund them?

Gilliam's support of Dave Chappelle is what's triggered the hypocritical Old Vic to take this action against him. If you say 'T', everybody jumps to it...

Who wants to watch earnest, ideologically-approved plays, directed by plodding, ideologically-approved directors?

Exactly. That’s what the Royal Court Theatre is for.

Having said that, it's a long time for them to have worked with him after if they took issue with that article.

The production might turn up somewhere else though — the Old Vic don't have the performance rights to it, the production company do. TG was attached on that side, and they don't seem to be getting rid of him.

I don't think his new show was even announced until earlier this year, when they would already have known about these comments.

That's not right — I think news about it came out just before the pandemic, and it was originally supposed to be that winter.

In all the articles I have read the identifying as a black lesbian comments have been mentioned as well as the #MeToo comments. I just want to make it clear that I do not think the Old Vic would treat someone better if they were actually a black lesbian, just that we're in the insane position where someone who is white + a man + definitely not a lesbian would have been treated more sympathetically if he had seriously expected people to regard him as a lesbian, instead of making a(n admittedly lame) joke about it. As with Rachel Dolezal and that guy who claims to be Korean, identifying as a POC would not be regarded as acceptable, even though the logic behind rejecting that but accepting gender identity doesn't stack up.

www.spiked-online.com/2020/01/08/its-time-to-stop-bashing-white-men/

The article also mentions his comments about #MeToo, which are quite offensive.

I don't think his new show was even announced until earlier this year, when they would already have known about these comments. What appears to have triggered him being cancelled is his much more recent support for Dave Chappelle.

One of the comments that got Gilliam cancelled by the Old Vic was his joke about identifying as 'a black lesbian.' I was merely commenting that had he seriously claimed this, instead of joking about it, the Old Vic may have treated him very differently.

EsmaCannonball
It would be interesting to know what the Old Vic staff would have done had Terry Gilliam actually identified as a black lesbian

I am so tired of Black people being put in as a 'gotcha' on matters that are NOTHING to do with Black people. Nor has it ever been the case that discrimination against Black people is unacceptable in the UK and results in someone being totally cancelled.

'Yeah but Black people tho' is rubbish. Its not an oppression olympics game. & your comment is offensive.

Are you not aware at all that The Old Vic has fairly recently been called out for not having a single Black permanent staff member, despite being based in a diverse part of London/Borough with a high Black population? Look it up.

'Black lesbian' indeed🙄.

Yes, but surely the way forward is to take their arguments apart, not to try and muzzle them?

Oh I definitely would not muzzle them and I might even see the show - I'd just be wary of accepting my enemy's enemy as my best friend.

@MarciaDidia: I like that you said this because its been my personal mantra for ages, ie: this is complicated but several contradictory things can be true at the same time. Seems to me this is grown up thinking.

You will be unsurprised to hear that I am capable of having all three of these thoughts/opinions at the same time, because life is usually a little bit more complicated than some people realise

If people keep cancelling things there will be nothing left

Nothing at all

Problematic artists, problematic actors, problematic directors, problematic themes…

Yes, but surely the way forward is to take their arguments apart, not to try and muzzle them?

I was quite bothered by some of what TG said about #MeToo

I was too. It sounded like victim-blaming to me.

I think half the men I know have said something along the lines of #MeToo 'going too far'. I suspect most of the other also half think it but just haven't said so in my hearing. I still wouldn't dream of going after their livelihoods.
(My response is usually that I might start to take them seriously the day I see Prince Andrew in court.)

Re this happening to him despite being male, I think male privilege peaks when men are younger and while I wouldn’t want to suggest it disappears with age, old men are much more easily written off or dethroned than younger ones.
I think those who are thinking ‘ha! Now this is happening to a man we’ll see some action!’ are likely to be disappointed.