Non-crime hate incidents

Sorry I think I was unclear last night - a number of Police Chiefs and Boris Johnston have already said that misogyny can't be made a hate crime because there's so much of it in society that the police don't have the time to deal with it; even though dealing with misogyny is supposed to be THE new policing and political priority according to Police Chiefs and Boris Johnston.

That's the crazy bit. I mean crazy as in, I want to bloody scream.

'Oh yes, we care, blah blah blah. But we're not going to do anything about it.'

the police would be swamped

thankfully most people don't abuse the system like this minority of activists. to the point up thread I don't want to see the police lose a resource for predicting VAWG, VATP and femicide.

People were being encouraged to report the BBC article about lesbians being coerced into sex as a hate “crime”. They should mean incident, but they use crime instead, either through ignorance or wilfully to conflate the two.

mobile.twitter.com/christineburns/status/1453265486699958276

So an initiative to help police track racism in the wake of the murder of Stephen Lawrence is now being used to record offence taken at pointing out some males are rapists.

I’ve said it before, I am surprised Doreen Lawrence isn’t more angry at this abuse of the system. It will eventually be stopped because it’s because so vexatious and real community racism won’t be noted anymore.

TrevorFountain

I don't think it would take up that much time if sex, age etc are included as a protected characteristic. Like i say above, its an intelligence log which will be graded and filtered depending on the source. I don't think it will be a case of being swamped by such intelligence logs.

So, if its a case of information being passed by a member of the public on an individual - say Fred Bloggs. So, Fred Blogg's page will be updated that there is information (graded on the source - accurate, can not be judged, untested source, suspected to be false) that Fred Bloggs has posted hate speech on a specific account or attended a rally which is antisemitic. Then as an officer, if I'm dealing with a crime that involves Fred Bloggs - I can put his name in the system and look at all these intelligence entries which may be relevant to the crime I'm dealing with.

Perhaps hate crimes should include sex as a protected characteristic

They should; but they don't; and they never will because apparently the police would be swamped with the amount of hate by men against women and it would take up loads of time.

But certain TQ+ police networks can pressure their forces to trample all over freedoms of belief, expression and association.

Crazy stuff.

Wiltshire90
The point is these non crime incidents and guidance around them come from the College of Policing not politicians. It is down to each force to decide how it applies the guidance. Your force may not prioritise, others do.

What is being asked is that freedom of speech is given due weight, the police have a duty to protect the right to freedom of speech.

The other problem is there is no filtering of complaints, which are recorded and kept for years without proper investigation. Collecting intelligence should be proportionate, at the moment it is simply the perception of complainants.

So how does the resource allocation thing work then? How is it happening that the cops are spending time on ideologically impure Tweets while not having time to deal with rapes and burglaries?

My hazy hypothesis is that they allocate a bunch of useless morons to the rainbow unit, who then have to justify their existence by posing with bondage puppies at pride and zealously persecuting GC Twitter users and autistic teens while other officers get on with the actual work of policing. I would be very grateful for some actual insight to replace my hypothesis.

It's probably worse to create an evidence folder on someone and then not have the resources to be able to put the pieces of the jigsaw together than it is to not collect jigsaw pieces in the first place.

@Wiltshire90, thank you for your informed and informative posts. They are appreciated.

Precisely - but there should be at least a method of recording such tweets etc - even if it means that no officer is deployed to it.

That way you will build a picture of someone - might never be used, but it could be vital in safeguarding someone.

For example - if we have a victim of abuse who we a trying to put in a place a safety, it becomes important to know the back ground of the people we are putting them with. So, one of the house occupants may not have any criminal records, but they have an extensive history of a specific hate speech etc. Might effect where we put them.

This might sound daft, but isn't this a copy of health and safety practice?
We've all seen the iceberg/pyramid diagram which shows for every one fatal accident, there's six non-fatal, and umpteen minor injuries, etc etc until at the bottom there are eleventy billion "near miss" incidents.

Which is true.

But then some bright spark works out if you avoid the eleventy billion near misses nobody ever dies. So they send a small army of ferrets to ferret about and point out every possible near miss, whilst letting major faults go unfixed.

There might be a use for incidents as intel, but to be logged against a person's name without them even knowing is ridiculous. And there's nothing to suggest it would prevent any deaths. Apologies to the coppers on this thread, I know how busy you are, but someone being cited for a tweet shouldn't exist in the same world as a battered pensioner waiting five days for someone to pop round long after a burglary.

Sorry, should have written that as person 'A' and person 'B'

I would say the natural next step to this is not only recording the words of person a), but also regarding person b) as a suspect because they didn't disagree with person a) or didn't disagree robustly enough. Verbal non-action will increasingly be scrutinised too if this carries on.

Some domestics we go to are not a hate incident, but they are still recorded and can be used to give a better picture of the history

@FindTheTruth I've not come across her work but it looks really interesting, thanks I talked in a post above about how we record non-crime domestics and how we review the domestic history and the history of those involved when we submit the reports, so it sounds like we're already (in my force) picking up on the types of things Dr Jane Monkton Smith is talking about. I can't see that stopping any time soon with domestics (if ever) due to the number of murders that are between domestic partners

@Wiltshire90 that's really reassuring. I just hope they don't knee jerk reaction the other way and stop capturing these patterns of behaviour in serious cases. especially thinking about Dr Jane Monkton Smith's homicide timeline where she's mapped the patterns and predictors that could save so many lives.

@FindTheTruth they're really not - I think this is a case of a few cases getting hugely out of hand and garnering a lot of media attention. I personally have never seen anybody interviewed or arrested for the types of incidents you're talking about. Domestic abuse and violence however, I see positive action taken by the police every day. I've never come across any "hate incident" where someone has been offended by something someone says online being "actioned" by us unless it actually IS a crime, not a non-crime incident. I can only speak for personal experience of course. "The Police" is made up of 120k+ officers, 48 different forces, many different policies and procedures and is directed by the Home Office so it's hardly the police "deciding" anything.

I'm not saying this isn't a concerning issue because of course it is and there clearly have been cases which have been taken too far, but from what I am seeing at work it's not a huge widespread issue and anything like this that does get reported either never comes to a police officer's attention or is dealt with with common sense.

The likes of Wayne Couzens may have been spotted earlier if he had numerous NCHI's recorded against him.

How about perpetrators of domestic violence, who never actually commits any crimes, but have numerous incidents which are misogynistic?

Sex is not a protected characteristic under hate crimes or NCHI so these would not be recorded. Wayne Couzen''s would have been stopped earlier if the police had properly investigated the actual crimes he had committed. That they did not reflect the misogynistic police culture that is only heightened by the special status given to groups other than women under NCHI guidelines.