It isn't the police's job to stop people being offended

Non-crime incidents are a different kettle of fish.

Can I just point out that the article in the OP is about non-crimes.

Why are the police recording non-crimes against specific people?

I think the difference is that the crime is the same, but the circumstances of that particular crime must be considered as part of sentencing.

So an assault is still an assault. But it makes a difference for sentencing whether it was motivated by racism or random drunken violence. It’s about weighing up the aggravating and mitigating factors in individual crimes.

In either case, the notion of ‘hate crime’ is not all that helpful.

Hatred might not be nice, but in itself it isn’t criminal. The problem is where that hatred motivates actions and causes effects that hurt and disadvantage people.

We cannot reasonably tell people that they cannot hate (we CAN disapprove and not want to spend time with that person or listen to them). But we can prevent them from causing harm on the basis of that hate.

Frivolous example (purposefully): its fine for someone to hate broccoli. It’s not ok for them to assault someone because they put broccoli on their plate. Nor is it ok for them to try to intimidate broccoli farmers into giving up.

People can think abhorrent things and hold dreadful opinions. Where we intervene is when their actions are problematic, not just their thoughts.

Read the details about it. That person was targeted because they are trans. If you think otherwise say why.

That particular man would not have done that particular crime to a woman, or to a man in a pub.

And you know this because...?

I'd agree that recognition of the extra element hate adds is important. The transwoman who was stabbed recently having opened the door to a man who'd booked her for sex was stabbed specifically because she was trans. That particular man would not have done that particular crime to a woman, or to a man in a pub. I hope it is recognised as a transphobic hate crime as well as a stabbing.

The difficulty is untangling how to draw the line and where nonviolent acts like speech fit in. I am instinctively a heavy regulator of speech- remembering the impact of demagogues and campaigns of hate in the past, eg Rwanda, but I know that's a dangerous impulse too.

I agree with PieMistee, a crime where someone is deliberately targeted because of their race or sexual orientation is a crime with an aggravating factor. I do think this should be taken into account.

What shouldn't be recorded is non-crime incidents which is just telling on people in a stasi like fashion.

That must have been fucking terrifying Pie. But could it be recorded in another way - eg crime is "assault" and motivation is "hatred based on racism"? Would that work for records and recognition too?

Whatever the good intentions behind hate incidents it's clearly been hijacked by people who weaponise their "special" status to shut women up. That the police are institutionally misogynistic means that they can't be trusted with these powers. They need to go.

Legislation: Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill – committee stage (day 4)
www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/0f6746fa-3805-478e-bd16-89d7f1d9a225

I would like to see the whole concept of hate crimes scrapped, not just “thought crimes”.
Punching someone because he is an African and you are a racist, causes the same injury as punching a white man because you are drunk and looking for a fight.
Both should be prosecuted as common assault - your motive is irrelevant, and it is ridiculous to waste police and court time trying to prove that you were thinking “hateful thoughts” at the time.

Hear, hear.

#babdoc I completely disagree. Crimes that involve targeting of vulnerable groups add a layer of pain and fear that comes from being picked on for a particular trait. This is why misogyny should be added.
If you are randomly targeted for a crime it is horrible but if it is because you are black or gay it ties into all the other times you have been picked on for that reason. Never has my blood run more cold than when my friends and I where running away from some football hooligans and we heard one shout "get the nigger". We tried to protect my black friend but there was nothing we could do.
It also is so important to record hate crime as it can show changes in societal behaviour and gives an understanding of why a particular crime is rising or not and how to tackle.it..

Thanks for share token

Well done Harry 👍

I would like to see the whole concept of hate crimes scrapped, not just “thought crimes”.
Punching someone because he is an African and you are a racist, causes the same injury as punching a white man because you are drunk and looking for a fight.
Both should be prosecuted as common assault - your motive is irrelevant, and it is ridiculous to waste police and court time trying to prove that you were thinking “hateful thoughts” at the time.

Glad to see it is being debated in the House of Lords. This is another example of something introduced with good intentions, but so loosely defined that it has been manipulated into a tool for silencing innocent people.