#CisIsNotASlur trending on Twitter

Itsnotdeep et. al.

Very glad to be in good company. I have tried really quite hard to understand the gender woo side. But happily my critical faculties remain intact despite all the nasty female biology stuff, and in recent months I have come to the certain conclusion that is it total bullsh*t. Inconsistent, illogical, regressive, authoritarian, divorced from reality, scientifically laughable,... I could go on.

How so many intelligent people and respected organisations can have been taken in is beyond me. Sleeping at the wheel.

Here's hoping the bus is finally coming off the road.

If not having a gender identity would be considered as effectively being a trans identity, perhaps its affirmative cis people who might be the minority?

So "woman" may well be a predominantly-male gender identity

And we're back in the maze.

Okay, I feel a bit further on because I know what a sense of self is.

A sense of self is the experience of yourself as existing in the world but being distinct from it. So when someone is experiencing depersonalisation due to mental illness they lack a sense of self.

How can that feeling vary in such a way that matches or doesn’t match your sex? I can’t see what it has to do with sex.

(sorry I cross-posted with a whole load of you saying the same thing )

I already know what gender isn't: shoe size, IQ, sex, height, proclivity to play with trains, science ability, cat or dog, and an infinite number of other things.

It's odd, isn't it? Milli isn't the first person to tell us at great length what gender isn't, but is completely stumped when it comes to telling us what it is.

And yet this 'gender' is supposed to be more important than sex when it comes to sports, changing rooms, prisons...

How can it be more important than sex when nobody actually knows what it is?

Oh this thread 😂 I have never heard so much magnificent nonsense!

I am also non-gender because I don't even know what that is. So I must be non binary too. Or agender. Or something (maybe just female ) . So clearly I can't be Cis.

Has anyone tried to define gender? What does it apparently mean?

(I also strongly reject Cis)

Has Milli legged it?

Because I would like a flow chart to tell me exactly what my 'gender identity' is.

If it's not supposed to be just 'female' (so periods, pregnancies and pushing out babies, which is material reality and pretty identity-determining), then what the hell is it? I don't 'feel' anything else related to gender. Nothing.
And none of these identity obsessives ever give a proper answer beyond 'feels'.

[quote Millicispud]@anon12345678901

No, they are women.

What their biological is only really matters of they come onto my ward.[/quote]
God help us if you’re a doctor/nurse if you believe men are women just because they say so…

Oh look, Milli has scarpered before giving an actual answer.

Milli told us what gender isn't. But didn't tell us what gender is.

I already know what gender isn't: shoe size, IQ, sex, height, proclivity to play with trains, science ability, cat or dog, and an infinite number of other things.

BUT NO FUCKER WILL TELL ME WHAT IT IS! I genuinely feel gaslit when I try and engage with posters who claim to believe that twaw and we're all hateful terfs.

Ffs will someone please take a punt and try and explain it to me?

I'm a lefty feminist, my gut wants to support an oppressed minority. I do sometimes wonder if 'we're the bad guys' but then countless women (and a few men) explain really clearly why gender ideology is harmful and how trans right requests are harming women and girls, and no one ever turns out coherently for the other team, so I can only conclude they have literally zero actual evidence or logic behind their argument

Are their many women (ie females) at all who claim to have a "woman" gender identity?

I know there are lots of men that do, but as far as I can tell most women either (a) don't believe in gender identity or (b) believe in gender identity but say they're non-binary.

The number of women who believe in gender identity and say they've got a "woman" one is probably vanishingly small, right?

So "woman" may well be a predominantly-male gender identity.

Monsignor, right, this is such a good point. Let's say my gender is 'woman'. What IS the gender of 'woman' such that it matches my female sex? Why does the 'woman' gender match the female sex but the 'man' gender does not match the female sex? To answer this question we aren't allowed to take note of stereotypes or gender roles, but there has to be something in the content of 'woman' which makes it a better fit (a comfortable fit, as stonewall puts it) to being the female sex. What is this content? And it also seems to me that the 'woman' gender must relate in some way to sex in order for a match to even make sense. Otherwise it's like saying 'your star sign identity needs to match your height' .

And to queer it up a bit...why does my gender identity even need to 'match' my sex in the first place? Where is this normative notion of matching even coming from? Who says that the woman gender identity must match the female sex? Who made this decision and why? Surely the most radical thing to do would be to say there is no such thing as cis or trans because there is no such thing as a mismatch between the body and identity - you are fine just the way you are.

I was going to congratulate them for at least being the first person to answer whether female-sex and gender-woman means trans or not!

I suppose as most of us are now trans there aren't any cis people here to put in their place?!

I think you’ve spooked milli with your pesky logic, monsignor

I don't know if you can have a gender of XX and a sex of XX, for example?

This is why I keep asking for the list of which genders match which sexes. Not yet forthcoming.

As I've said before, it's a bit like asking if your race matches your nationality. How could it? They are separate concepts.

“It’s the personal sense of self, oftentimes this is matching the sex of the person”

So sex matters? We need to know the sex of the person? Sex is important? Knowing someone’s sex is key?

Finally something we can agree on.

If cis means an actual real biological woman then yes, I’m CIS

You don't need to use cis to describe yourself as a biological woman though. If you are a biological woman, then the word woman will do. It always has done. Always will do.

If cis means an actual real biological woman then yes, I’m CIS

So with gender identity it’s about making lots of words to describe people more clearly and give them labels like cis, non binary, trans, etc but simultaneously making lots of other words less clear and with no definition like woman, birthing person, lesbian, sex based discrimination etc?

Can I get out of the maze now?

Gender itself is different.
It's the personal sense of self, oftentimes this is matching the sex of the person.

Personal sense of self! Sounds like describing a soul.

That is why people who don't believe it are treated like blasphemers. You're not allowed to be an atheist or you are hateful, and there is lobbying against a secular society. Every department and educational establishment must use the catechism.

And if its a sense of self ajd everyone's different how come so many identify as men or women. What are the definitive criteria fir this there must be some or how would anyone know what they are ?

[quote Millicispud]@anon12345678901

No, they are women.

What their biological is only really matters of they come onto my ward.[/quote]
Okay, so you agree that biologically speaking, men are not women. The language has always meant 'adult human female' and you concede that male people cannot be female. Great, that dispenses with that (you'd be surprised how many won't concede that one).

I'm pretty sure you will insist gender stereotypes aren't why - yes? That an interest in pretty dresses, babies, and baking isn't what makes someone a woman?

As a medical professional, you will know that it is impossible for someone to be 'born into the wrong body'. Yes? Every cell of our bodies is sexed, so a male person has a male body, and the brain is of course a part of that body - it's not somehow separate, like a soul floating in the ether. Our bodies are who we are, as an organism, and our brains just part of that. I mean, you're a medic. You know this.

So - why and how is a male person a woman? What is your rationale, here?

If you can explain how and why a male person is a woman, without resorting to stereotype, scientific impossibility, or quasi-religious belief, then I'm genuinely interested to hear it.

If it’s a “personal sense of self”, how can it be that a male bodied trans person has a sense of self that they know for sure is womanly or feminine, when I, who actually am a woman, don’t have that sense at all? (And many, many women do not).

And if they did, and we accept that it’s true, why would a feminine gender identity be more important than a masculine everything else- brain, body, organs, every single cell?

People can believe what they want about themselves, but compelling everyone else to fall into line with belief systems they don’t hold never ends well.