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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

#CisIsNotASlur trending on Twitter

335 replies

Slythermum · 30/10/2021 14:52

I'm assuming through the garbled wordfuckery I'm seeing on twitter that this is people who don't understand language who are using that this is in response to:

a) The BBC article about Lesbians
b) Women objecting to the word "cis"
c) Shut up women
d) Dinosaurs
e) Shut up Lesbians
f) fannies

Meanwhile, my daughter has said girls in her class are saying "down with the cis bus" "cis people are evil", "cis should die" etc

OP posts:
KimikosNightmare · 30/10/2021 22:15

[quote Millicispud]@MrsTerryPratchett

Not irony at all, you claim to know all about gender, then start talking about gender expression and roles, two entirely separate things.

Gender is what you are, not what you do or where.[/quote]
Gender is what you are

What is that supposed to mean?

waterlego · 30/10/2021 22:13

Awesome post @wellbehavedwomen. 👏🏻

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 30/10/2021 22:12

I do genuinely come under the trans umbrella according to stonewall so can not be cis. I'm still waiting for someone to explain what I am

Alektopteryx · 30/10/2021 22:07

These people who spend so much time insisting that women accept their religious beliefs all seem such unhinged, regressive, authoritarian idiots.

I don't accept the term 'cis' being applied to me any more than I would accept 'heretic' or 'infidel' from adherents to other religions.

wellbehavedwomen · 30/10/2021 22:02

[quote Millicispud]@waterlego

Took me a little bit to work out to be honest, and as I said, some people don't discover their sexuality until later in life.

But I mean, I wasn't expecting a "gender critical" cultist to understand or even pretend to care about lesbians.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus
You know those online quizzes are completely worthless and just there to harvest your data and sell it on to advertises right?
Is that really where you all think you're agender? 🤣🤣[/quote]
Many (most, of those who are high profile), GC feminists are lesbians.

Moving on.

People used to refer to 'sex changes' (you concur that sex is immutable) and 'transsexual' (same). There was no alternative, because gender was a grammar term only. Gender, in the sense you're using it, is a really recent idea. You're saying that you believe that everyone has a personal, and therefore subjective and unprovable, sense of gender, which is detached from their physical and sexed body (even though our brains are, by definition, part of our body - we can have no disembodied thoughts). So effectively, you mean a soul. You think people have soul-genders, and while you don't link that to an external deity, you do link it to an inner essence that nobody else can ever experience, nor prove.

Is 'a personal sense of self' you can't identify, explain or justify in any way worth dismantling women's sport, women's shelters, single sex prisons, and even women's right to collectively organise as a sex? If transwomen have the same violence patterns, collectively, as other males (where 95% of those in prisons, and 99% of those in prisons for sex offences, are male) then why do women have no right to say that male people remain male people, regardless of a personal (and therefore by definition unprovable and subjective) belief and they want single sex spaces to remain that way? You've been very anxious to assure us that you are an educated person. Have you read the above documents? What about the book, Trans? I mean, only an ignorant person would hold a dogmatic position without bothering to understand the opposing case. Dangerous thing, confirmation bias. So what did you find unconvincing?

I respect the sincerity of other people's faith beliefs, even if I can't personally share them. But why should we be forced to live by your faith, or be deemed reprobates? Isn't that the essence of fundamentalism?

You used the phrase 'oftentimes'. That makes me think you are from the States. Did you know that the women who complained at Wi Spa, who were attacked for making it up, for being hateful - in fact were protesting about a known convicted sex offender, with a rap sheet dating back 20 years? Are they owed an apology? What happened to 'believe women'?

I do have one more question. If sex doesn't make someone a man or a woman, and is a completely different thing - then what's all the focus on getting hormones, and complex and dangerous plastic surgeries, to more closely resemble the opposite sex in what can ever be a very superficial way? If gender is a soul-based belief, personal to each person, then why have a surgery that castrates someone and makes them 50% or so likely to have functional incontinence afterwards? Why give children drugs that cause known risks to bone density, brain and social development, and even possibly IQ, when with watchful waiting almost all will grow out of dysphoria, yet with those drugs almost all progress to becoming lifelong patients with those risks and complications?

Can you explain that, as a medical professional?

WanderingSoutherner · 30/10/2021 22:02

Millicispud
Do enough research and you'll find that pretty much every anti trans argument is just a rehashed homophobic and sexist arguments.

Actually, most of us did our research and ended up here in the gender critical position.

Saying there is more to being a woman or man than the physical body is sexism. The concept of gender identity is built on sexism.

WhoWants2Know · 30/10/2021 21:59

[quote WeeBisom]@Millicispud:
You say: "It's important to note that gender does not equal gender roles/stereotypes/expression."
So what is gender then? How can I know what my gender is, and whether it sits comfortably with my sex?[/quote]
👆 It's not just how do I know what my gender is.

How the fuck can anyone else see inside my head, and tell me that my "gender" matches the "biological sex I was assigned at birth"?

If I'm cis, fucking prove it.

Otherwise shut the fuck up with sticking prefixes on me.

PhiRhoSigma · 30/10/2021 21:57

I'm with @waterlego. Exactly what questions does one ask oneself, to establish one's gender identity?

Because if it really is all just 'feels', then it sounds very much like a religious belief to me.

OldCrone · 30/10/2021 21:57

This is the Stonewall definition of cis:

Cisgender or Cis
Someone whose gender identity is the same as the sex they were assigned at birth.

So in order to be cis, you have to have a gender identity, so it's not everyone who isn't trans, because most people don't have a gender identity. Do you disagree with this definition @Millicispud?

And how can a gender identity be the same as a sex when they're two different things?

WanderingSoutherner · 30/10/2021 21:56

@Cailleach1

Gender itself is different. It's the personal sense of self, oftentimes this is matching the sex of the person.

Personal sense of self! Sounds like describing a soul.

That is why people who don't believe it are treated like blasphemers. You're not allowed to be an atheist or you are hateful, and there is lobbying against a secular society. Every department and educational establishment must use the catechism.

I think I believe in souls (despite lack of scientific evidence, but hey who cares about that?!). But a soul, or some kind of essence of a person, or a sense of self, can't be male or female because those terms describe the physical body. Its like saying you have a tall soul or sense of self, utterly meaningless.
MonsignorMirth · 30/10/2021 21:55

Catherina I don't get it - asking genuinely.
Millicispud says that female-sex and woman-gender doesn't match, so is trans. So in what way are you cis, if you don't mind me asking?

OldCrone · 30/10/2021 21:53

Are you transgender?

How would I know if I was transgender @Millicispud?

Waitwhat23 · 30/10/2021 21:53

I do wonder sometimes if Stonewall hands out a TRA script - as some of these posts are identical to ones I've seen from other TRA posters.

And once again, you can footstamp all you like. I don't identify with a made-up, nonsensical term and so I'm not referring to myself as cis.

CatherinaJTV · 30/10/2021 21:51

[quote Millicispud]@Waitwhat23

Are you transgender?
No.

Okey so you're cisgender then.

This is quite literally the exact same argument as "I'm normal, I'm not "heterosexual". Sees, you've got them weirdo "homosexuals" and thens ya gots me, a "normal" man".

Except now it's simple "I'm not "cis", I'm a human adult female. Not like them "trans" weirdos, I'm a "normal" woman".

Do enough research and you'll find that pretty much every anti trans argument is just a rehashed homophobic and sexist arguments.[/quote]
I like this one Flowers

CatherinaJTV · 30/10/2021 21:50

@Millicispud

It's just a descriptor; do people really get bent out of shape by being called cis?

I'm cis, my partners are cis, almost all the women I know are cis.

pretty much this (and all subsequent of your posts).

I am a woman, but as a trans ally am often misidentified as a trans woman. "cis" helps me specify that I am not trans.

frumpety · 30/10/2021 21:48

Nobody is saying you can't

But you are saying I have to be a Cis, I have never been a Cis before, nobody in the last 50 years has called me a Cis, can I not just ditch the Cis monniker and just be me ? I like being Frumpety, its what I feel comfortable being, it's how I identify, I am Frumpety.

Millicispud · 30/10/2021 21:48

@Waitwhat23

Are you transgender?
No.

Okey so you're cisgender then.

This is quite literally the exact same argument as "I'm normal, I'm not "heterosexual". Sees, you've got them weirdo "homosexuals" and thens ya gots me, a "normal" man".

Except now it's simple "I'm not "cis", I'm a human adult female. Not like them "trans" weirdos, I'm a "normal" woman".

Do enough research and you'll find that pretty much every anti trans argument is just a rehashed homophobic and sexist arguments.

waterlego · 30/10/2021 21:46

But I mean, I wasn't expecting a "gender critical" cultist to understand or even pretend to care about lesbians.

You don’t have the first clue how much I understand or care about lesbians.

Can you answer my question please? What questions can I ask myself to establish what gender I am?

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 30/10/2021 21:44

milli so gender is just another word for personality, nothing to do with sex? Or sexuality? That's a new interpretation to me.
I'd also thought we were agreed that cultural norms of 'woman' were not much more than harmful restrictive stereotypes.
So, a gender identity is just identity? Why associate it with biological sex at all?
How do I know if how I am mentally and personally has anything in common with other people? How could I label myself a woman, or a man? My sense of self is unique.
My sex, however, is not.

MonsignorMirth · 30/10/2021 21:44

Oh dear, someone didn't get the 'be kind' memo. Gender-based insults, how progressive.
I note you cannot seem to answer my questions, @millicispud , yet I remain polite and am taking on board what you are saying even when it directly contradicts itself - I'm taking the time to try and figure out what you mean so I can understand you.

You say on one hand that women-gender and female-sex makes you trans but that the vast majority of women are female and not trans. I can't see how you can reconcile those two positions.

Waitwhat23 · 30/10/2021 21:43

Because the options are cis or trans.
It is a statement of fact.

You can insist this as much as you like. Doesn't make it true.

I'm not 'cis'. I'm an adult human female = woman.

Millicispud · 30/10/2021 21:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Soontobe60 · 30/10/2021 21:42

[quote Millicispud]@flashpaper

Because the options are cis or trans.
It is a statement of fact.

Trans women are not men as men refers to gender.
Calling them men is incorrect, makes you look dense and a twat.

Did you practice being dim or is this a natural skill of yours?[/quote]
Would that be a female’s twat or a transman’s twat?

PhiRhoSigma · 30/10/2021 21:41

[quote Millicispud]@dementedma

If you're not cis, you're trans.
It's that simple.

It's English, learn it.[/quote]
Authoritarian, much.

Soontobe60 · 30/10/2021 21:41

Trans women are women because thats simply what they are mentally, personally and culturally

What does a woman look like mentally?
What does a woman look like personally?
What does a woman look like culturally?

Absolute madness.

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