#CisIsNotASlur trending on Twitter

I'm cis, my partners are cis, almost all the women I know are cis.

Fine, you can call yourself what you like. I’m a woman. I’m not cis because I won’t use a silly expression that was made up to fit the claim that there are other kinds of women.

Exactly right. Like with so much, you look to what they are not saying. And they say we GC don't want gender non-conformity, when actually we are saying wear what you like, but be aware it doesn't change your sex.

And for the record, many TRAs did say thinks like I just feel so nurturing, or vibrant, or dainty, etc. Using stereotypes to describe their 'gender'. Until it went more mainstream and they got told it was sexist bollocks.

So now it's morphed into something conveniently indefinable.

(Except for uninformed parents who didn't get the memo, banging on about their sons liking dolls and glitter so they must be a girl).

If cis is just a useful prefix to describe feelings in relation to one's birth state, then does that imply that it can be used with other characteristics as well?

So, cis age? Cis race? Cis hair colour? Cis species?

If you're born with a disability and that characteristic forms a large part of your identity, would you be cis-abled?

What a brilliant thread. Also typical that once the decision was made to avoid answering questions, the insults started. I’m place marking, because the discussion here is an exemplar of the sheer illogicality of it all.

Catching up on this thread, and I have a question for genderists: why do you have to get so snarky and nasty? You obviously want to tell us what gender is and get us to accept we are cis. You engage in good faith up to a point and then become bitter. Now here’s my suspicion… you actually can’t define gender identity. You say it has nothing to do with biological sex and nothing to do with gender roles or stereotypes. But in fact it’s impossible to define gender identity without reference to these things, so that’s why you resort to saying that gender is vaguely to do with the self or ones culture or whatever.

And it does make me think about why you do this. Why you contort yourselves to say that gender is this deep innate “feeling” (the content of which is never specified). And I think the reason is this. Because you know that if you say that gender identity is about clothes, makeup, hobbies, personality (which by the way is the gender bread definition), if you say that a woman is anyone who likes dresses and kittens and baking … well that is breathtakingly and obviously sexist. It’s not politically correct to say that women are women because we like pink or enjoy being submissive (another definition, courtesy of Andrea chu who says being a woman is about entirely subsuming oneself to another’s desires). You know this will got down like a lead balloon, and so that’s why you evade and dance round the issue. You throw out some vague half baked shit in the hope we’ll accept it (gender is the self!) and then when we don’t buy it you just give up and resort to insults - we are bigots, we’re stupid, we’re a cult etc. It’s pretty transparent.

You’ll deny it, of course, but what I keep coming back to is the fact I’ve been reading this board for a long time and no one from the genderist side has been able to define these concepts adequately. Or they do eventually hint that they are women because they are soft, kind, love glitter etc in which case gender critical feminists reply with an incredulous “really?”

I don't know how one can be "mentally" a woman without resorting to stereotypes, but I do respect Millicispud for sticking around and providing some kind of definition for gender identity.

I will not be told by any man (whether he's wearing a beard or a frock ... or both is irrelevant) that I am part of a subset of 'women' called a 'ciswoman' . Cis is a slur .
I am a woman . An adult female human .
Transwomen are not women , they are men .

So the WHO link, which many of us have seen before, that Millicispud linked says:

Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.

Norms. Behaviours. Roles.

Well, norms covers the ‘cultural’ aspect that was mentioned upthread.

Tell us again Millicispud and catherina what aspect of behaviours and roles are not ‘stereotypes’?

This is the official guidance apparently. According to Mllli, who defined it as culturally, mentally and personally. The ‘mentally and personally’ drives ‘behaviour’.

I’d like to know just what research milli undertook to discover their gender identity. Because since they are so knowledgeable, they should actually be able to describe it so we can understand.

I don’t expect anything more from Catherina because they have not produced any usable definition in all their time on this board.

But the pivot away from stereotypes is a fairly recent move by activists to a ‘deeply held feeling’.

Well, my culturally, personally and mentally derived identity is that of ‘a person’ with no gender at all because I don’t believe in gender identity.

While we have our gender experts, can they please tell us how anyone knows whether they are ‘genderfuck’? I have not yet heard a usable description yet.

This forcing a prefix is not acceptable when gender identity is basically indescribable. It is as inane and meaningless as ‘non-binary’ at the same time of declaring there is over 100 genders. What is the difference between non-binary and agender?

So, I wait for anyone to tell us what part of ‘behaviours and roles’ is not based on stereotypes to ‘sort into woman and man’ gender identities.

Cis is a label to ‘other’ women (biological, natal females), and allow certain people to describe themselves as a subset of that group.

No, thank you.

I absolutely reject the label “cis”, just as I reject the fallacy of any male being a subset of sex = female.

Just no. How many times do people need to be told that it is not accepted or acceptable? On this forum, at least, we are “allowed” to absolutely reject its use - Don’t Call Me Cis.

"Almost all the women I know who share these beliefs read up on it to disprove the hateful bigots. I wanted to do what you're doing - genuinely, I went away and read up on all the shit the horrible women here were saying, to prove they were wrong. As a good liberal progressive feminist, I knew they had to be! Right?

The problem was that they weren't. All the evidence was on their side."

Ditto. And I have to say it was a stressful process to go through, and it would be easier to be on the other 'side' still, but here we are. I have a lot of sympathy for trans people, it's this whole gender ideology that I can't buy into.

This labelling reminds me of the demands I heard growing up to assign my alliance with a football team in order to avoid or risk sectarian violence depending on who was asking.
It's divisive and dangerous.

I came back on to make the point made above that although Milli says that woman and man generally refer to gender rather than sex, this isn't true. I don't know why a small number of people keep repeating it. It's out just in the hope that if they say it enough times it will magically become true?

Was there a meeting ten years ago where 5 people got together and agreed 'let's start saying that woman and man are genders. We can say it to a bunch of women determined to be kind whatever the cost, and I'm sure we can find a bunch of sexist men who'll enjoy putting clever women in their place. Let's see if it catches on'?

There is a dictionary definition of the word man and it does not mention gender or feelings. The top line entry is Adult Human Male www.google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/man

There is also a definition for the word Woman, again the top line is medical and leaves no room for debate dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/woman?q=Woman

Why do you think we don't notice if you change the definition of a word to try and win your argument?

Cis isn't a gender and doesn't imply you have a gender, it literally just means you're not trans.
This is just so offensive. I’m a woman. If people want to say the only suitable descriptor for me is ‘not a trans woman’ putting them at the centre of being a woman and all of the rest of us simply as those other kinds of woman people who aren’t trans women , then I reject it. The vote was not won for ‘non trans women’. Education, the right to work and own property was fought for for women, for me and all other females. Men already had them.

Gender identity ideology is the niche belief system of a tiny minority. The 99.5+% of the population who are non believers do not need to declare ourselves 'cis' to differentiate ourselves from trans people.

Trans used to mean homosexual transexuals. Now it means anything and everything. Able bodied straight males can now declare themselves to be disabled lesbians.

They tell us we must call ourselves 'Cis' to create the illusion that there are 2 types of women. Transwomen and 'cis' women that both belong is the same category.
By doing this it allows the males to insert themselves into our sex class. They can then pretend that we are using the very biology that their sex class has been using to oppress ours forever, to oppress them.
Classic DARVO.

Woman generally refers to gender but is often used interchangeably with female

'Woman' isn't a 'gender', it's the word to describe female humans. It isn't a special inate feeling or a outfit, or a performance of femininity.

Still haven't told us what this woman gender us supposed to be. Because the males who claim to have one seem to need the sex role stereotypes in order to reinforce this gender belief and think this behaviour somehow distinguishes them from the rest of their sex class.

As humans cannot change sex, 'gender' is simply personality and presentation, so why do these males need access to female spaces? Why do children need to be put on medical pathways when the adult males can just be trans by saying so?

It's nothing like gay rights.
Same sex attraction is once again being called a 'preference' that can be changed, because straight males want to call themselves lesbians.
How anyone can't see the blatant homophobia in telling lesbians they should overcome their sexual orientation to accommodate penis owners, just because the person the penis is attached to claims to be a woman, is beyond me.

Gay people demanded nothing off anyone else. No language changes or forcing people to alter their beliefs.

TRAs want the rest of us to pretend that our sex is irrelevant and that this unprovable, entirely subjective feeling of gender that only a few people actually claim to have, or give a shit about, should be the basis for all future policy for society, despite that having an extremely detrimental effect on females as a sex class. Only males benefit from this. Transwomen ARE the patriarchy.

spud I am no more cis than I am a sinner or infidel. You may be a believer but I am not.

It worries me that vulnerable people feel the need to hurry under the trans umbrella for fear of being isolated.
The idea that the AS spectrum belongs there is sinister.

I reject the use of 'cis'. I am a woman. An adult human female.

@NarcissistsEyebrows
Exactly. Because 'its in my head' doesn't sound real or solid. And strays into the mental health arena which is dangerous ground. If you make it all genetics and biology and medical then it has to be an actual thing that can't be reversed so must be accepted without question (and through legislation). It's not gonna work though because the evidence is 'head' only.
(So can't be fought on same grounds).
For most people simply doing something different than the 'sex norm' would be enough.
If out of all of this comes a renewal in the ability to be who you want away from labels that would be at least something. I am an optimist and I think that's what this will fizzle into (and some people will then look a bit silly!)

I give it all another 3 years tops!

Yup.

Catherina if you believe that TWAW, why do you need the cis descriptor to identify yourself as other due to your masculine presentation?

Can we not get through a thread without mentioning Willoughby?

Me too @Wildfart
'Your parents f*ck you up' n all that. But its at least possible to reverse usually. You can't sew back on a pair of nads or bring back some brain development or fertility.
Adults (of right mind) do what you want to yourself. But don't harm others or yourself.

I'm loving this thread (kind of). I now have a better explanation for why I'm not Cis (woke work etc). Cheers! I haven't heard it used much recently though so think its slowly dying out. I give it all another 3 years tops!