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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Ace week" in girl guiding.

392 replies

WarriorN · 30/10/2021 11:33

What fresh hell....

Thankfully a number of posters really not impressed. Worrying number think it's entirely appropriate Hmm

https://www.facebook.com/girlguidinguk/photos/a.398392309681/10158689026444682/?type=3

But it was worth reading it to find this excellent analysis of "Ace" identity and issues around it.

bryndisb.substack.com/p/asexuality-queering-the-mundane

OP posts:
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Beamur · 30/10/2021 14:54

Guides are 10-14
Rangers are 14-18

trancepants · 30/10/2021 14:52

This reply has been deleted

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Berthatydfil · 30/10/2021 14:39

Aren’t girl guides all under 16 ? In my day the older girls went to Rangers (?). Isn’t this a safeguarding issue ?

Beamur · 30/10/2021 14:32

I get the impression that being Ace is very much open to interpretation.
It doesn't make much logical sense.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/10/2021 14:31

Re children who don't go through normal puberty not developing a sexual response - this is the other big reason, together with potential loss of fertility, that pre-pubescent children just can't give informed consent to puberty blockers. Their brains and the rest of their bodies have not yet matured to the point where they can have any idea of what they're giving up. It doesn't take much imagination to remember what it's like being a young child. You haven't got a clue about being an adult and feeling sexual attraction, enjoying orgasm etc.

Datun · 30/10/2021 14:30

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense.

It's based on what the lawyers for the Tavistock said in the first court case Keira Bell brought against them.

They justified children possibly not being able to ever have an orgasm due to puberty blockers followed by cross sex hormones, and not being capable of understanding it enough to be considered to meaningfully consent to the treatment, with the fact that lots of people are asexual in later life anyway, so it wouldn't necessarily matter too much.

This.

It's really disturbing that youth organisations are talking to children about their lack of sexual feelings. And celebrating asexuality in children.

Also, what is this claim that asexual people are having lots of sex?

Is this a narrative that you don't have to feel attracted to someone, or enjoy sex, in order to have it??

Every which way you look at it, it's disturbing.

TheWeeDonkey · 30/10/2021 14:24

[quote ItsAllGoingToBeFine]Also, asexual themed underwear Hmm

twitter.com/theyasminbenoit/status/1452282041563820050?t=Hmxi0wj7wtBXxMYK0PYVLQ&s=19[/quote]
That looks like something from the Ann Summers catalogue.

Asexual is something I get confused about, I understand people having no or low sex drive, and I understand some people are celibate by choice, but the bondage wear, sexy poses and constant talking about sex makes me think this is something completely different?

TheWeeDonkey · 30/10/2021 14:20

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I have seen it said that asexual as an identity is very important to TRAs. If it is an identity that people can choose without judgement, then it makes it less problematic when adults are asexual because they were transitioned as children.
I think this is such an important point. I remember the only episode of I Am Jazz I watched, Jazz was in middle teens at the time discussing the lack of sexual feelings they had and how confused that made them feel. Very disturbing.
Perpetualnoise · 30/10/2021 14:06

@NoNotMeNoSiree

Loss of libido suggests you actually do have sexual feelings most of the time or have had for you to see it as a loss. So no, how exactly is that the same?
The menopause comment was flippant. The trauma comment wasn't.
NewlyGranny · 30/10/2021 13:58

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/10/2021 13:55

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense.

It's based on what the lawyers for the Tavistock said in the first court case Keira Bell brought against them.

They justified children possibly not being able to ever have an orgasm due to puberty blockers followed by cross sex hormones, and not being capable of understanding it enough to be considered to meaningfully consent to the treatment, with the fact that lots of people are asexual in later life anyway, so it wouldn't necessarily matter too much.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/10/2021 13:55

NoNotMeNoSiree

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense.

You misunderstood. I've edited your post so you can see where the misunderstanding arose.

"You're saying that some people think it's important for asexuality to be recognised so that if transitioning doesnt work out they can turn round and say '' oh well I can just be asexual, doesnt matter? " tell vulnerable young transitioners that they're asexual, instead of the victims of medical malpractice."

Yeah, I don't think it works like that.
You don't '' choose '' your sexuality and it'll be no different in this case.

Well, no, it will be very different. Lack of sexual desire due to iatrogenic effects (e.g gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists, cross-sex hormones and genital surgery) is a different kettle of fish from an innate lack of interest in sex.

OneEpisode · 30/10/2021 13:53

I think you misunderstand NoNotMeNoSiree
It’s not a matter of transitioning not working. If GNRHA treatment works as Mermaids et all want, so from the first Tanner stage, then the child has none of their genetic puberty so none of their genetic sexual functioning. That is the intended result of full treatment of children with GNRHAs

NeverDropYourMooncup · 30/10/2021 13:50

@Rightsraptor

I absolutely do not need to know if any guide leader or anyone I work with is asexual. I think all this is part & parcel of the 'bring your whole self to work' thing.

No thank you.

If I had a choice, I'd far prefer leaving my womb and vagina at home and go to work without them. It would certainly make one week in four easier, that's for sure.

I don't want to know who, what or not somebody is doing to get their rocks off or keep them firmly on a rockery in their spare time whether I'm in the workplace, in the classroom or when responsible for 30 children. Unless it's children, animals or people who can't consent. Then they can get to fuck.

WarriorN · 30/10/2021 13:45

[quote KatieAlcock]I have just tweeted about this

twitter.com/wontsomeonethi2/status/1454415343108206597?t=odlsva8YhpP_Ng2ufppxvg&s=19[/quote]

It's disgraceful Katie, and thank you for your will work in this.

I was particularly surprised that someone proudly claimed to have been active in bringing trans gender people into gg leadership. Aka transwomen.

OP posts:
NonHypotheticalLurkingParent · 30/10/2021 13:43

Guides don’t need to think of their Guiders in a sexual way. Why are they being guided along these lines?

I had a friend explain to me the other month that her 6 year old identified as asexual. I honestly haven’t spoken to her since. In what world does a 6 year old need to be pressured into identifying as anything. I was a dreadful bigot for pointing out that ALL 6 year olds are asexual.

I honestly can’t believe any of these people are sane.

NoNotMeNoSiree · 30/10/2021 13:42

Loss of libido suggests you actually do have sexual feelings most of the time or have had for you to see it as a loss.
So no, how exactly is that the same?

Perpetualnoise · 30/10/2021 13:37

In my experience, most asexual people have childhood trauma of some sort.
It's not a sexual orientation really, is it?
I'm currently asexual based on my menopause related loss of libido. Does that count?

NoNotMeNoSiree · 30/10/2021 13:33

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I have seen it said that asexual as an identity is very important to TRAs. If it is an identity that people can choose without judgement, then it makes it less problematic when adults are asexual because they were transitioned as children.
I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense. You're saying that some people think it's important for asexuality to be recognised so that if transitioning doesnt work out they can turn round and say '' oh well I can just be asexual, doesnt matter? " Yeah, I don't think it works like that. You don't '' choose '' your sexuality and it'll be no different in this case. Just like you don't choose to be gay, or lesbian, or bi or hetero. You just are. Bit Hmm that you think people just pick and choose it.
Whatwouldscullydo · 30/10/2021 13:32

trance

Honestly inwas worried my post wouldn't stand if I expressed the thoughts that it was entirely unlikely.

I had not really thought about it much until recently tbh. But then asexuality became a defence in the Bell Vs Tavistock case. The result of kids being left with no sexual feelings as a result of being prescribed puberty blockers was defended with the statement that some people are asexual anyway.

At that point I I start to wonder if that's why it was suddenly being made more of a thing.

trancepants · 30/10/2021 13:24

@Whatwouldscullydo

There can also be medical reasons for a lack of connection with people , lack of a sex drive in adults etc

Depression , brain tumors, having your puberty blocked by powerful drugs.

Whereas there is no doubt that asexual people exist , perfectly healthy and happy, we can't ignore that assuming you are a sexual and potentially missing order health issues is not necessarily something we should be doing without question.

What do you mean by "no doubt asexual people exist?" I have a lot of doubts that asexuality is a sexuality. There are certainly people who don't experience sexual desire. But as you say, that can be for medical reasons. Hormone imbalances can be common too as I've read accounts of both men and women having no sex drive. Then after years discovering they have abnormally low testosterone levels and experiencing sexual desire once they have their levels raised.

I think asexuality can also stem from psychological issues. In the linked article a woman who had been in a relationship with an older man who pressured her into sex when she was too young, identified as asexual. Whereas I read that and felt like she was having an understandable response to trauma. And she should ideally have good counseling to help her deal with that.

There is also the issue that lack of sexual activity is quite bad for various aspects of your physical health. You don't have to have partnered sex, but if you aren't at least having and satisfying urges to pleasure yourself. Something, physical or mental is very probably wrong. And will lead to further problems as you get older.

Fetarabbit · 30/10/2021 13:12

Very odd, when will this madness end. It seems more about validating the adults than anything in the best interest of the girls.

Thingybob · 30/10/2021 13:07

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

Why the deep fried fuck would any Girl Guide need to know if their Guide leader was asexual? Why does anyone really need to know about anyone's asexuality to be fair?
Because according to Stonewall “ High rates of suicidal ideation and attempts, familial rejection, and attempts at conversion are reported by ace people”?

Surely it is the moral duty of every non special Girl Guide, and Guide leader, to stop shagging for 5 minutes and come out as an ally to the ace community.

Melroses · 30/10/2021 13:07

All safeguarding goes out of the window once organisations get involved in this ideology.

Where are the checks and balances. 🤷‍♀️

ScreamingMeMeSawUs · 30/10/2021 12:59

According to a reply on Facebook, they totally missed International Lesbian Day.