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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Ace week" in girl guiding.

392 replies

WarriorN · 30/10/2021 11:33

What fresh hell....

Thankfully a number of posters really not impressed. Worrying number think it's entirely appropriate Hmm

https://www.facebook.com/girlguidinguk/photos/a.398392309681/10158689026444682/?type=3

But it was worth reading it to find this excellent analysis of "Ace" identity and issues around it.

bryndisb.substack.com/p/asexuality-queering-the-mundane

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
OvaHere · 30/10/2021 23:54

This thread has some very odd posts in it.

Yes.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/10/2021 23:36

Normalise [clap emoji] Not [clap emoji] Talking [clap emoji] About [clap emoji] Your [clap emoji] Libido [clap emoji] To [clap emoji] Children

Am I doing this right?

DuckDuckNo · 30/10/2021 23:33

This thread has some very odd posts in it.

Word.

Scoutingformygirls · 30/10/2021 23:25

If it's appropriate to talk about being asexual with your guides, would it also be appropriate to state that you're hypersexualised? Asexual isn't an orientation in the way we normally understand is it?

Quite frankly, this is all utterly bizarre.

This thread has some very odd posts in it.

girafferafferaffe · 30/10/2021 23:25

When is this absolute fucking BULLSHIT going to end !?

Phobiaphobic · 30/10/2021 23:22

@WarriorN

Especially as ace people appear to have as much sex as anyone else.

Is it the rebranding of heterosexual?

Everyone has to be speshul now.
BigFatLiar · 30/10/2021 23:08

Who sends their kids to girl guides to learn about this sort of thing? Don't they go to guides to have fun?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/10/2021 22:52

@FemaleAndLearning

Girl guides have turned off commenting on Facebook. They have also posted a social media guide for their community. The people on that thread do not seem to understand that by congratulating each other on being ACE on a public account for all the GG community they are engaging with minors about their sexuality. Some posters saying it's not children as facebook required you to be 13. That really worried me that girl guiders are not seen as children!
You should not be encouraging children to think of what level of sexual desire you feel in your private life.

Yes, even if it's zero.

Beamur · 30/10/2021 22:48

Katie - I think that. YL do have to do safe space level 1 now.

KatieAlcock · 30/10/2021 22:26

@FemaleAndLearning

Girl guides have turned off commenting on Facebook. They have also posted a social media guide for their community. The people on that thread do not seem to understand that by congratulating each other on being ACE on a public account for all the GG community they are engaging with minors about their sexuality. Some posters saying it's not children as facebook required you to be 13. That really worried me that girl guiders are not seen as children!
I actually think that one of the posters revealing her own sexuality may be a child too (Little Owl is often a young leader aged 14-17). This age group doesn't have to do the safe space training AFAIK but are often looked up to by girls.
RepentMotherfucker · 30/10/2021 22:14

@PumpkinGin

How about all random adults stay out of initiating this (any sexuality related) discussion with other people’s children?

How about only PHSE in schools teach this, under strictly supervised conditions and subject to safeguarding?

This.

A PP said 'but they have CRB checks'. I mean... Hmm

FemaleAndLearning · 30/10/2021 22:09

Girl guides have turned off commenting on Facebook. They have also posted a social media guide for their community. The people on that thread do not seem to understand that by congratulating each other on being ACE on a public account for all the GG community they are engaging with minors about their sexuality.
Some posters saying it's not children as facebook required you to be 13. That really worried me that girl guiders are not seen as children!

"Ace week" in girl guiding.
DuckDuckNo · 30/10/2021 22:07

@Whatwouldscullydo

How about only PHSE in schools teach this, under strictly supervised conditions and subject to safeguarding

Agreed.

The girls at girlguides get what? 2 hours a week where they aren't asked fir blow jobs in art class, or called a slag becuase they said no to sone boy who's been asking them out every ten mins for a week.

Can't they have 5 mins away from sexuality or lack.of being the be all and end all.

This this this! I'm not sending my kid to Guides to learn about sex (or lack of), I am sending her there so she can do fun things that have to do with nature and learn skills and cooperate with others. God knows sex and sexuality and identities - invented or not - are pushed at them 24/7 anyway.
Whatwouldscullydo · 30/10/2021 21:50

How about only PHSE in schools teach this, under strictly supervised conditions and subject to safeguarding

Agreed.

The girls at girlguides get what? 2 hours a week where they aren't asked fir blow jobs in art class, or called a slag becuase they said no to sone boy who's been asking them out every ten mins for a week.

Can't they have 5 mins away from sexuality or lack.of being the be all and end all.

NoNotMeNoSiree · 30/10/2021 21:47

@KimikosNightmare

In what way have asexual people suffered anything like that?

They haven't

We probably all know asexual people in real life and just haven't given it that much thought?

I'm sure we have all met and know asexual people and I'm also sure that whilst they won't have suffered the same sort of prejudices gay people have suffered that they will have had to put up with being say the office weirdo; the cold fish; the sad spinster.

This has made me think, I used to work with someone who we thought along the lines of them about (I know, I know Blush) It was about 20 years ago though. She probably was ace looking back. It's good people have more awareness and more accepting now. Although seemingly still a long way to go
PumpkinGin · 30/10/2021 21:46

How about all random adults stay out of initiating this (any sexuality related) discussion with other people’s children?

How about only PHSE in schools teach this, under strictly supervised conditions and subject to safeguarding?

NoNotMeNoSiree · 30/10/2021 21:41

@MumofAceDD
Yes, that's how it reads to me as well, hide it, to pretend you're not in case people fetishise.
It's not OK to say that about other sexualities, so why this?
If that wasn't what was meant apologies but not sure what else it's getting at!

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/10/2021 21:38

Do you deny that nuns are fetishised? That the vestal virgins were?

In fact, the Roman emperor whom some people have claimed was trans on FWR did marry a Vestal Virgin. History does not record what she thought of being married to the Emperor instead of being a temple priestess.

NoNotMeNoSiree · 30/10/2021 21:35

@NeverDropYourMooncup

There is another consequence if girls are encouraged to label themselves asexual.

They'll become the next fetish target for entitlement to their bodies, that they're being selfish in not giving somebody access to it on the basis of a mere absence of attraction. Like nuns and vestal virgins, both heavily fetishised (and yes, of course some would have chosen to not have sex when they did have desire, but some would be drawn to it because they had no interest in sex) in certain genres.

Why give it a label so it can become an object of desire?

You've just made up an entirely fictional scenario in your head there though. '' They'll become''..... says who? Just someone's imagination?
PumpkinGin · 30/10/2021 21:26

@MumofAceDD

Your daughter sounds wonderful. I don’t think anybody is saying anything about whatever her sexuality is. Of course children should be aware of different sexualities and feel validated.

My only point, which I keep reiterating, is that this discussion should only be initiated under very specific circumstances and subject to safeguarding restrictions.

Don’t you see that you and I are on the same page here?

You know exactly how you want advice your daughter to act, based on your knowledge of your daughter, don’t you?

Would you want any poster here who talks about fetishisation of your daughter’s sexuality to discuss this with her? Would you want them to initiate this discussion?

As parents, we know what is best for our children. Based on our knowledge of our children. Random adults should stay away from other people’s children.

MumofAceDD · 30/10/2021 21:10

@NeverDropYourMooncup

There is another consequence if girls are encouraged to label themselves asexual.

They'll become the next fetish target for entitlement to their bodies, that they're being selfish in not giving somebody access to it on the basis of a mere absence of attraction. Like nuns and vestal virgins, both heavily fetishised (and yes, of course some would have chosen to not have sex when they did have desire, but some would be drawn to it because they had no interest in sex) in certain genres.

Why give it a label so it can become an object of desire?

Am I understanding you correctly that young women should not say they are asexual which may help them understand themselves in case they become objects of desire and fetishised (by whom? They should pretend to be sexual, and understand and have a sexuality? How would they do that?
MumofAceDD · 30/10/2021 21:05

posted too soon - should have added ‘fetishisation of normal feelings to my list above’

Good grief - ??!?

MumofAceDD · 30/10/2021 21:04

@WarriorN

The thing is at girl guides if you've discussed Aces, what else will be discussed? (Clearly not lesbians. Hmm)

Especially given that Gg don't have clear understandings of boundaries around being single sex.

You would not say to someone who says they are gay at 20 that well, it changes daily, why label yourself?
That's is subtly different. Many teens actually don't feel like being sexually active. This is quite normal. And are more than likely going to become so as they get older. but the key point is all the other sexuality labels and the way they lead into confused boundaries.

If it really were as described by your daughter's experience, not an huge issue, except it's clearly not ( as in link in op) and again, therefore what on Earth is the relevance in Gg?

I can see it in a way at school, with current reams of identities and sexualities it inoculates against all the pan sexuals etc. But it's a shame normal young teens have been made to feel unusual and thus need a label.

As said, young people such as Jazz Jennings have unfortunately become asexual by force following botched surgeries, botched due to the effects of puberty blockers. (Jazz's own surgeon has now said pb's for children are not appropriate.)

It’s not different from telling someone they might not be gay because it is not ‘not feeling like being sexually active’; I don’t feel like being sexually active but I know if I feel attracted to someone or have sexual feelings. I didn’t feel like being sexually active as a teenager, but I did ‘get’ heterosexuality (being straight) and associated feelings.

The thing is, one can have a perfectly legitimate and valid discussion about whether it is appropriate in GG to bring in, or the medicalisation of young people resulting in lack of sexual feeling, without making unfounded comments about asexuality being a result of trauma, hormone imbalance, a phase, just a label, that asexuals are the office weirdo, sad spinster, cold fish, not really asexual because other people call themselves asexual and have sex (these examples were just the first and last page of this thread). That is what I was responding to.

My DD has a large friendship group of both sexes, she would not stick out in a crowd in anyway, in fact she would hate to stick out. You wouldn’t know if she didn’t tell you (and she is not likely to do that). I don’t even know if she would be upset by these kind of comments, or just accept that understanding of asexuality is in its infancy as very under-researched and not culturally normal. She understands that. But she would have appreciated it being acknowledged as a possibility growing up, in the examples I gave upthread. That is all I am saying.

She did not go to GG but she went to various other activities where I think it would have been bizarre to bring sexuality into it, but SRE and certain contexts in high school, and indeed beyond, recognition of asexuality would be appropriate and helpful.

WarriorN · 30/10/2021 21:04

My first thought was that this is fetishisation of normal feelings.

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WarriorN · 30/10/2021 21:02

Key point; the curriculum has set guidelines which I imagine will be revisited and reviewed more regularly than in the past. Curriculum Written by experts and subject to Ofsted. The safeguarding schools do is of a higher level and different to what Gg would do.

Gg does not follow that curriculum. And is not Ofsteded.

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