Is this Deputy head accused of rape a man or woman?

@BloodinGutters, thank you for sharing. You genuinely have no idea how much your posts have meant.

I've read them a little shakily, you're absolutely right, thank god, that women like your mother are very few and far between. However we are due in court in not long at all (won't say exactly when, may be a bit outing!) to hear the sentencing of my DSDs mother and her partner, who has put them through a very experience to yours.

Everything you said about your mother, from the cult-like following, to the pristine house, good job (with children!) and power trip over people has rung true about theirs, you could have been talking about her, and I'm sat here crying into my tea wondering what the fuck is wrong with people.

Reading your words has given me some hope though. I look at my girls and my heart breaks, they are so emotionally upside down and some days it's hard to see how they'll every find a way though it. I worry constantly for their futures, and how this will impact them as they grow up, but I am so desperate for them to be able to realise that it was NEVER their fault, and that not everyone in the world is out to hurt them. It's just so hard to convince them of that at the moment.

I'm not quite sure how to say this without sounding like a total weirdo (sorry!), but you sound like you are LIVING despite what happened to you, rather than simply existing as they are at the moment, with a normal life and a lovely DH. That's all I am dreaming of for them and the thought that it could be in their futures is amazing. Counsellors, police and social service never really focus far beyond the end of a crisis point, as a parent I want to know what happens next!

Genuinely, thank you, and I'm so sorry x

@NiceGerbil - what does CSA stand for in your last post?

This woman was also the Designated Safeguarding Lead at her school, which is is also horrific.

Yep it was rhetorical!

I'd add the fact that the media are always very interested when women commit sex offences esp CSA or do something really violent as it's much less common.

Whilst I am not aware of specific details of this case or the charges - generally speaking any unlawful act of penetration (digital-penile-foreign object) could constitute a charge of rape. Obviously both males and females have the capacity to commit the offence

Er, no. Wrong.

Under the English and Scottish statutes rape requires penetration of vagina , mouth or anus by a penis. The Scottish statute refers to a "person's penis"(English statute refers to "his penis) The Scottish statute also provides that a penis includes a surgically constructed penis and a vagina can also be surgically constructed.

The different wording ("his penis") in the English Act does not mean a trans woman would avoid a rape charge by claiming it was "her penis"

Both jurisdictions are clear that penetration by any other body part or an object is sexual assault by penetration- a different crime.

Rape requires penetration by a penis. A trans man could be charged with rape if they had surgically altered their body to have a penis grafted on. A trans man using a vibrator or similar would be sexual assault by penetration.

A biological woman can be charged with rape if she assisted a person with a penis to rape another person. It's a rare charge to be brought and requires a high degree of participation in the crime, as in the towpath rape case.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/17/sarahhall

That’s incredibly kind of you holy. And everyone offering flowers.

I don’t think anyone has ever said I come across measured before, I’m normally railroading everyone with bucketloads of emotion and disorganised information. Measures seems like such a compliment!

It was all several decades of therapy ago. & I live a long way from where it all happened which helps to feel safe, and have an amazing dh too.

The most upsetting thing always is when there’s claims of women do it too and namalt. I remember my mother as an all powerful predator, but I don’t ever feel that transfers to how I feel around women at changing rooms or for smear tests etc. And I never worry about my girls with women to look after them. But I do instinctively fear men always.

I’m not sure how much of that is because of the abuse and how much is inherent in being female. But the idea that just because very very few women do this too, that we aren’t safe around them anyways so we should shut up and put up with men in women’s spaces, well that all stings most of all these days.

But you are all very kind so ty x

I'm so sorry for what your mother and those men did to you Blood, I'm stunned by your measured posts which are so personal and clear. I thought it interesting when you explained that your mother saw you as an extension of her and so she 'owned you' and could do what she wanted with you, including offering you up to men. That struck me as being insightful, what a survivor you are to have been able to process it to a point of understanding her motives. I can't imagine (and if I'm totally honest I don't want to imagine) what you have been through. I'm so sorry for how you were so very, very badly you were let down.

The PP who explained its rape by joint enterprise is correct.

The surnames are very suspect, and the reporting biased, but focusing on the woman backs up the fact that it's so rare that when a women does it the public want to know more about why, when men do it, it's common and therefore less interesting.
We know why men do this. We know far less about why women do it.

The fact that in law in England Wales rape is defined as non consensual penetration with penis.

Women can be charged with rape if they act with a man BUT there will always be a man or men to do the actual rape.

This law is the only one we have where the sex of the perpetrator can be gleaned.

Many countries laws have been altered over the years to penetration so women can rape.

The stats around rape are useful as they are the only indicator of what level of gender rather than sex is being recorded.

Yes women can be charged with rape but it's pretty unusual. And there will always be a man or men involved as well.

The increase in women being prosecuted for rape is being 'explained' by saying well they will have been assisting. Doesn't hold water.

The fact is that IF women are committing sexual offences of any type in increasing numbers (which according to stats they are) then where is the call to look into why and how to reverse it.

As for the rest. That's a very long post with a lot of what I think are meant to be professional sounding words and phrases scattered about. To state that you don't know what the law is.

Women can be charged with rape for actively assisting a man to commit the rape.

It's fairly unusual but does happen.

My question is. The man was done for much more. Why is the focus in the article not the other way round? (Rhetorical q obv).

generally speaking any unlawful act of penetration (digital-penile-foreign object) could constitute a charge of rape

No, it would not. Your understanding of the law is wrong. Section 1 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 is clear that rape requires the accused to penetrate with his penis. Penetration with a finger or some other object is sexual assault.

This is what I find so abhorrent in all this. The slow, chipping away at boundaries in our society. And the willingness of some people to allow boundaries to be pushed in the same of some political agenda.

Children need protection, always. Safeguarding need to be an absolute priority.

How does the conversation even start?
It is cycle of boundaries being broken often, step by step, one taboo becomes normal and acceptable in the relationship and then the next slightly more unacceptable thing becomes normalized and so it goes on.
If at any point the other person says wtf then a backtracking would start, just a joke, totally drunk didn't know what I was saying.
It is a type of grooming process although it can be mutual.

The other option is that someone is comfortable enough with stating what they want to do that they seek out similarly interested people on the internet.

Anyhow the article has changed to say she's accused of aiding and abetting rape now.

It’s just that women like my mother are very very very rare. And the men like her aren’t that unusual.

Thanks for the explanation. Very powerfully put.

And one in the eye for those woman-haters who try to say that women are as bad as men.

Weird how we focus on those very very rare women, and take the “ordinary” behaviour as men for granted.

All decent men should be outraged at this, and put pressure on each other to ensure that men learn it’s not manly to behave this way. But they don’t. They just shrug and go #NAMALT

I know the full details/facts will come out in due course. It does state they are not related. Reading the list of charges they both face, they differ but one which is the same is around ‘2 counts of sexual activity in presence of a child’ so it does look as if they have been in a relationship (both having same surname just a coincidence) and a child has been involved re sexual activity. Horrific.

@Chicchicchicchiclana my post was just in response to someone using the words "lots of women"
They have gone on to acknowledge it was a poor choice of words in a later post.

Rose West and Myra Hindley are always used as examples of 'women who do it too' because there have not actually been 'lots', however much some would like that to be the case. Their crimes were committed nearly 40 and nearly 60 years ago and yet they still get brought up - their names stuck in people's minds because it was and is rare for a woman to commit this sort of crime.

Thank you for your measured posts on the subject, BloodinGutters. I'm so sorry you went through what you did.

A friend read this thread and contacted me - I have some understanding of the law in this general area from a professional perspective- also I am sure many of the contributors will be aware, chargeable offences sometimes bear little lucidity to the criminal act. Whilst I am not aware of specific details of this case or the charges - generally speaking any unlawful act of penetration (digital-penile-foreign object) could constitute a charge of rape. Obviously both males and females have the capacity to commit the offence.

Speculatively as the media hasn't reported any charges that would relate to an abduction or false imprisonment. I assume that the victim|s were known to the defendants in some capacity- the exact events from a point of lawful interaction to an unlawful act taking place will be scrutinised and if that chain of events involves coercion by one party to the extent that it is reasonable to assume the criminal acts would not or would have been unlikely to have taken place then the decision to charge both asfully accountable can be made.

Why is her photograph being widely published, but not his?

BloodinGutters I am so very sorry 💐. I agree that women can be every bit as evil as men. I just don’t understand women like that. I despise male sexual abusers, they are scum, but I can somehow see that they have some weird fetish are getting off on it. But women? I cannot for my life understand the motivation.

I agree with the safeguarding concerns though. Everyone can be a predators, everyone should be under suspicion. But statistically it is more likely to be males. And this must be reflected in safeguarding.