Page 2 | Should we be careful what we wish for?

charliesbookmarker · 29/10/2021 16:30

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

eh? I am GC and was raised in a labour seat, family voted labour all my life. I was told to leave the Labour Party because I I didnt believe men could magically turn in to women.

Big Pharma of hormone suppressants have already paid the Lib Dems millions to promote TWAW and I wouldn't be surprised if Labour have accepted similar.

Its not normal for adult people to pretend that men can turn in to women, in fact its unhinged. Because we all know they cant. Its impossible. Labour and Lib Dems are unhinged and they will never win an election whilst they are peddling these lies and trying to gas light us.

charliesbookmarker · 29/10/2021 16:24

@Beamur

It's always about votes. But I agree there are some principled women in the Conservative party.

Yes there are! Ones who have stuck their neck out for quite a while now and have been involved in GC arguments.

Deliriumoftheendless · 29/10/2021 16:21

I can’t wait for the movie of all this to be made, when Blueberry is played by Jane Horrocks’ character from Life Is Sweet.

“Tory! Fascist! Quack quack!”

NewlyGranny · 29/10/2021 16:17

Potholes, that's perfect!

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/10/2021 16:15

Blueberry

P.S. does the Blue in your name indicate that you are usually a Conservative voter?

Wildfart · 29/10/2021 16:14

www.heritage.org/nuclear-energy/commentary/liberty-justice-all-conversation-sam-brinton-deep-isolation-and-the

Here's a trans non binary person aligning with the right wing conservative Heritage Foundation.

Mmm.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 29/10/2021 16:04

@Reptar

I don't understand this insistence that this party or that are standing up for women; none of them are.

Wasn't it Penny Mordaunt who said in the HOC that trans women are women? The Conservatives have been actively pushing this agenda - not just turning a blind eye but actually enabling it - and its been enthusiastically taken up by all the mainstream parties, who either don't understand equality law or don't think it should exist.

I think you will find they are now back tracking but people like Mordaunt are still allowed to believe the impossible if they wish. It is her view rather than the party's view I would say. Were I in her constituency, it would make it very hard to vote for her, as any woman should know better given their lived experience. It is sad that I would prefer to be represented by a man who understands biological reality than a woman who doesn't.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 29/10/2021 15:57

@WhatMattersMost

I think the cognitive dissonance is too high for some MNetters to concede even the possibility that some key members of the Conservative Party are indeed invested in women's rights.

Quite. I have to believe that at least one of the mainstream UK parties wants the votes of 51% of the population. We are really not asking for much are we? Just for our existing sex-based rights to be upheld.

NewlyGranny · 29/10/2021 15:55

I hink there have been many atempts to link GC ideas and understanding with far right political or fundamentalist Christian thinking, but while that might play in the US, it doesn't here. I'm GC or GS, as I prefer to think of it (Gender Sensible) but have never voted Tory in my life and have always been on the left politically, and a second wave feminist since the late 60s/early 70s.

But now I feel politically homeless in the UK and depending on conversations with my MP and other candidates I may even be reduced to voting Tory at the next GE if my traditional choice fails me. Whether I will be able to bring myself to do it is debatable, but that I', even thinking of it shocks me. So much for right wing/GC parallels!

Beamur · 29/10/2021 15:36

The 'GC' movement is cross party in the UK. It might not be so much so elsewhere, but it's not a right wing cabal here.

Reptar · 29/10/2021 15:10

I don't understand this insistence that this party or that are standing up for women; none of them are.

Wasn't it Penny Mordaunt who said in the HOC that trans women are women? The Conservatives have been actively pushing this agenda - not just turning a blind eye but actually enabling it - and its been enthusiastically taken up by all the mainstream parties, who either don't understand equality law or don't think it should exist.

BasiliskStare · 29/10/2021 14:35

& I have never kissed a tory - come on - surely these tribal lines are old hat now - I have voted either way - but it is true that the Conservative party stood up against self identification. It is documented. & i do not believe ( a family member knows one who ( Not Liz Truss ) spoke up in favour - she believes it - not doing it to get votes )

But when it comes to a vote - read everything and make your priorities. Self ID may not be one of those.

TheMarzipanDildo · 29/10/2021 14:08

weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1363/orthodoxy-and-its-discontents/

For Blueberry.

TheMarzipanDildo · 29/10/2021 14:05

“Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement”

Which explains why the Communist party of Great Britain have aligned themselves with us

RoyalCorgi · 29/10/2021 14:04

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

Because only right-wingers believe in scientific reality? Whereas left-wingers are all biology-deniers? That can't be right, surely.

PronounssheRa · 29/10/2021 14:01

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

Interesting take, Untrue though. The right wing would love nothing more than to put us all into gender stereotyped boxes, which should sound familiar because that is very close to the position of those in support of gender identity politics.

Original poster

Gosports · 29/10/2021 14:00

That’s a bit uncalled for! The point of the post was to understand the issue better.

OP posts:

WhatMattersMost · 29/10/2021 13:57

I think the cognitive dissonance is too high for some MNetters to concede even the possibility that some key members of the Conservative Party are indeed invested in women's rights.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 29/10/2021 13:55

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

Could you expand on what makes GC a conservative/right wing movement, @BlueberryCheezecake?

Original poster

Gosports · 29/10/2021 13:55

That’s the conundrum - I don’t want to support the right wing! But as a pp said, that doesn’t mean I have to accept their ideology wholesale. But it’s difficult.

OP posts:

BlueberryCheezecake · 29/10/2021 13:47

@Gosports

I’m 100% GC and want to be pleased about the latest news, from the Times article published today (confused though it is) and the BBC article earlier this week as it feels like the tide might be turning.

However, I can’t help but wonder about the motives behind these small ripples of change. I don’t trust the government at all, and I wonder if this is a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire? They have also proposed to curb judicial review and to limit our rights to protest so I can’t believe that they are at all concerned for young people confused about their gender, or lesbians abused by trans women. So why are they (or appear to be) supporting the GC movement. It can only be to gain more power in some respect, surely? And that worries me…

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 29/10/2021 13:45

@IvyTwines2

Labour and the Lib Dems have become completely unhinged on this issue and that goes to the very top, Starmer's awful comments on Marr. I've been a party member and activist for decades but I quit over this, horrified and saddened when the female leadership candidates signed that pledge calling WPUK a 'hate group' and dismayed when the only candidate who didn't go the whole hog there is now coming out with the same misogynist crap. It feels like Invasion of the Body Snatchers to be honest.

This too. I will never forget my shock in Labour Leadership debate when Lisa Nandy answered a question with: 'If we start from the point of view that TWAW.....' .WPUK are a transphobic hate group blah blah...

I think the Tories including Theresa May have clearly fallen for this to some extent but the Tory Party is the only one which will allow its MPs/party members to hold their own views on this.
There is no pressure to agree that TWAW and deny biological reality like there is in Labour, LibDem, SNP, Green etc.
The self-id thing was stopped on Johnson's watch after all.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 29/10/2021 13:39

@donquixotedelamancha

I think there is a risk of painting Tories as comic book villains. They are human beings with a particular set of beliefs.

Supporting policies which don't push the idea that humans can magically change sex is a pretty low bar that most people can pass.

The real question is why anyone thought the emperor was wearing clothes in the first place, not why some Tories will admit he isn't.

Yes. It is still astonishing how this ideology has gripped the English-speaking democracies all at the same time.

eurochick · 29/10/2021 13:19

@SweetGrapes

why are they (or appear to be) supporting the GC movement.

They can't be supporting it. Most of what has happened so far has been on their watch. So they may be making a few right noises now but the wholesale spread of the gender ideology in all walks of life (schools, councils, academia, prisons, judges, govt) has all been on their watch.

Not sure what is going on - but I am extremely cynical.

But central government doesn't, for example, control what happens in academia. They have policy and make laws via the parliamentary process. They haven't made any changes to the law (of which I am aware) that are enabling this. The GRA uses unhelpfully unclear language but that precedes both this government and the recent furore around gender and self ID.

I get that it's hard to swallow that the Tories are standing up for women's rights more than the Left but all the evidence suggests that is the case.

IvyTwines2 · 29/10/2021 12:53

Labour and the Lib Dems have become completely unhinged on this issue and that goes to the very top, Starmer's awful comments on Marr. I've been a party member and activist for decades but I quit over this, horrified and saddened when the female leadership candidates signed that pledge calling WPUK a 'hate group' and dismayed when the only candidate who didn't go the whole hog there is now coming out with the same misogynist crap. It feels like Invasion of the Body Snatchers to be honest.