BBC responds to backlash to article about lesbians being pressured into sex by some trans women

Do you actually think that eg Keira Bell or Raquel Rosario Sanchez count as old?

To MargaritaPie they probably are!

Gosh, this “next generation editorial group” comparing homosexuality to racism?

So progressive.

@MargaritaPie

I'd be interested in hearing from you why you think so many young men are attracted to protesting against women's sex-based rights. Certainly, most of the 'protesters' I've seen at these anti-women protests have been male. Often young men.

Why do you think that is? A regressive movement of male privilege attacking 'uppity women? A bunch of incels? Age-old misogyny that never changes? Witch-hunting? 'Mommy issues'?

I find it sad. It does feel like a reaction. Just as MeToo etc were leading towards a greater respect for women's rights, the men's rights activists found a new dressing for their cudgels to continue their age-old fight against women's rights.

@MargaritaPie

Wow, it takes a special kind of ageism and racism to render invisible leading figures in the gender critical movement.

Do you actually think that eg Keira Bell or Raquel Rosario Sanchez count as old?

Or is it just that your racism and ageism means you ignore their existence because it doesn't fit your pet theory?

Yes, some younger people - particularly young men - support theories that allow them to punch down at older women. And yes, there's nothing like experiencing misogyny based on one's biological sex such as discrimination due to pregnancy or maternity to make one realise that biological sex matters, which very young women are less likely to have experienced yet.

But the idea that it is a battle of young v old sounds a lot like David Lammy and his 'dinosaurs' comment - and we all know how successful that was as a form of attack.

You'd have a hard job explaining to me why so many leading lights on your side of the argument like Peter Tatchell tend to be older - and men.

Why is that? And how do they fit into your nice little battle of the 'virtuous' young versus the 'past it' older generation?

Since you've mentioned age (and I've seen another thread with a quote saying LGBA and T**Fs are old) I will say something I've observed.

The LGBA events and the conference- mostly middle-aged people, right? There was a photo on Twitter where one user commented "would be quicker to do a hair count than a head count".

Marion Millar and the people who turned up to support her in Glasgow- all mostly middle-aged people, right?

Graham Glinehan- in his mid-50s I believe.

Now think back to that LGBT event were someone wearing LGBA attire was not welcome. The crowd chanting "trans lives matter" at him so he would leave were all young people.

The students who protested against Kathleen Stock's employment. Young.

Think of pretty much anything Stonewall and there will be a mix of age-range including large numbers of young people (as opposed to dominantly old people).

The point I'm getting at is times are changing. The attitudes that were acceptable 50 years ago just aren't accepted by today's younger generation.

How do they know what the age split is? It seems likely that younger women are more likely to be affected by peer pressure and coercion as their careers are less established and they haven't been exposed to as much misogynist wankery. This sounds like a very anti-women group, and it would be an exceptionally bold young woman who didn't play nice. Or did the group hold a secret ballot? If not, the claim has zero credibility.

"Senior sources believe the issues should be tackled without fear or favour, while more junior members of staff think there have been missteps in reporting and transgender people are being unfairly targeted. “The fact is, LGBT colleagues skew younger and gender critical ones skew older. That matches with population,” observed one young employee."

Young person: "this is just the old people being old".

BBC young staffers complaining:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/914760dc-3e31-11ec-9bef-aa3112940013?shareToken=44c4dd51cdc47c230891cb98e092c9f0

Christ alive, what is that? And more importantly, who are all the lunatics fawning over them and their fetish pictures?

I shouldn't perhaps do this but I messaged a member of a band who identify as an all women LGBTQ+ band (4 women and one man who identifies as a woman). Amongst other things I asked -

"Just please explain to me how someone can claim to be same sex attracted and sleep with someone of the opposite biological sex? Explain how a lesbian can have a penis"

The response "Same way they use a strap on babe"

That is the closest I got to a rational argument from them.

Eresh, I am not sure about radical gender critical. But as a poster here tells us that “genital preferences”, which Cade has, means that you are GC, Owen Jones is definitely GC.

This all reminds me of some Americans discomfort with the truth of a black man, Obama being president. He had a Kenyan father and lived in Indonesia as a small boy. So the “birther” group tried to say he wasn’t born in Hawaii, part of the US, but Abroad.
But their theory was completely irrelevant because Barack’s mum was a US citizen. None of the quibbling made a difference to a black man being the legitimate president.

I am happy to announce that with those criteria Owen Jones is GC as well.

It seems once it gets down to sex, most people are GC.

Oh wow, Owen Jones is GC. Radical gender critical?

I thought the BBC had removed the survey from the story, but the version I just read had no Lily Cade but the stats back in.

And yes LC said some appalling things, and was rightly removed from the article.

It stands without her, though.

(lurkers)

Could you just say the name? I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with the Girl Guides transgender policy

GG policy has been Stonewalled to admit boys who identify as girls into the GG. They're to share the same sex designated shower, change, wash, and sleeping facilities, and staff are not permitted to inform parents that their daughters will be going on a mixed sex excursion. Staff who raised concerns about this have been expelled from GG.
Any female GGs who identify as boys will be edged out of the GG.

Before anyone cries "yea well Scouts is mixed" yea, well girl Scouts are not sleeping in the same dorm or showering with the boy Scouts, and no one is being forced to pretend they boy scouts are really girls.

Whatever happened to prominent TRA Jane Fae anyway? They aren't so visible these days. The BBC used to love JF. They were a go-to with all that knitting on screen, how very harmless and quaint.

Funnily enough the article still stands and is a valid point for discussion, it's just that there isn't as much context now for where the term 'cotton ceiling' may have come from.

Strange that! it didn't change much at all.

The initial subject is still untouched by the change.

All this unhinged rage is opening so many eyes. Especially people at the BBC! What numpties these TRAs are.

You know what Margarita you have been on these threads for long enough. I am quite sure that you know how to use advanced search and google. I am rather surprised that you don't know who I am talking about already since you have been on these threads for so long.

None of what I mentioned is new.

With the abundance of information I have given you, you can easily find it.

Maybe you will come back and denounce that male because frankly, their advocacy is very harmful to women and children despite them constantly denying the harm extreme pornography does.

Could you just say the name? I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with the Girl Guides transgender policy.

Try educating yourself, Pie.

Hint there’s threads all over a site called Mumsnet- you may have heard of it.

We acknowledge that an admission of inappropriate behaviour by the same contributor should have been included in the original article."
Good for the BBC taking responsibility.

Now that this distraction from the main thrust of the article, lesbian women being raped by some transwomen and being additionally victimised by threats of being accused of bigotry within their community, can we all agree that this is a serious matter that should be addressed. The fact that the perpetrator of these crimes are members of a minority group is irrelevant. Too often sexual abuse of women and children has been allowed to continue because some members of the male sex appear to be sacrosanct and above justice.

So, if you're the wrong kind of lesbian (the angry or verbally abusive type) then the BBC won't let you speak out about these issues? Only virtuous sorts can complain?

Was it the white transwoman who made fun of a mixed-race woman at a feminist protest, for her skin colour?