BBC responds to backlash to article about lesbians being pressured into sex by some trans women

I am confused as to why anyone reading that article would leave thinking that all transwomen are abusers. That is not what the article said at all.

I thought the article put a spotlight on the plight of some young lesbians. I found their experience of rape and abuse horrific. To be honest, I also feel sick that some people don’t believe this or are trying to hush up their lives experience.

And in addition warned that some prominent TRAs had in the past expressed very questionable views (transphobic for lesbians not to have sex with transwomen).

I found it telling that those people (Riley Dennis and the cyclist person) didn’t want to comment. I believe Dennis has taken down their video?

That can happen with all kinds of things, of course, but given how carefully the article was framed, such a conclusion is neither logical nor justified.

I would argue that influencing your impression was the wider debate, in particular the claim that women's rights campaigners like me supposedly object to the presence of male members of the trans community in female-only provisions because we are alleged to believe they are all predators.

I don't think they are all predators though, just as I don't think that all men are predators. I've never claimed them to be, neither have my fellow campaigners.

Now don't get me wrong, I know a woman or two who do believe all men are predators, based on serial lifelong abuse they experienced at the hands of many men. And as far as I'm concerned, that's a perfectly understandable conclusion for them to reach based on the available evidence. But they're not leading a campaign or make any demands on the basis of their views and they understand that their view is neither representative nor objectively true.

I'm also not understanding how your last sentence follows from the first. You don't believe they're all playing make believe, but the article leaves the impression, they're all miscreant abusers?

I conclude from that sentence that you object to the fact that those like me believe they are all men ("biological" is redundant here, as men are male). How can I believe otherwise though? It is material reality. That's not to say that I believe that no man can ever successfully present as a woman. He can. However, that doesn't change his sex.

You're assuming that most, if not all of us, think the worst of male members of the trans community. But I would like you to consider that I have little opinion on or interest in why any given man identifies as trans, because their motivations are wholly irrelevant to my aims to uphold the sex-based rights of women and girls. That's because their individual motivation has no bearing on the overall needs of women and girls that gave rise to those sex-based rights.

'and threatened police involvement on any transgender people who were provoked by their bigotted actions'

Is pretty telling, I think

When I read the article, I thought how awful it was for the lesbian who were sharing their experience of rape and coercive abuse. And what needs to be done to protect them.

As Lang always said, there can be no sacred caste of men that is beyond criticism because abusive men WILL infiltrate and WILL abuse. And I have to question anyone who would prefer these men to be off limits and women silenced. To me, it is the wilful enabling of abuse.

I`m sure for some its more complicated than "playing make believe", but the end result, as this article points out, is that some male bodied people feel entitled to bully lesbians. Lesbians (and all women) are perfectly entitled to call this behaviour out.

I disagree

The fact that they interviewed transwomen who clearly expressed their disgust at the abuse of the lesbians demonstrates clearly that it isn't all trans at all

And the headline was quite explicit ...some isn't all

Do you mean women?

I was meaning lesbians, specifically. The subject of the article...

PickAChew I don't believe in the current dogma TWAW, but equally I don't see trans people, or more specifically trans women, as essentially biological men playing make believe. But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers.

And I would prefer abusive men to face more challenges to carrying out their abuse, not less.

Is there anyone on this board who opposes the right of people to -

Campaign for and gain third spaces
Be called what they like
Present how they like

The challenges TW face seem to mainly be about overcoming the barriers women are trying to erect to keep men out of single sex spaces.

@LaetitiaASD ironic indeed! And sadly I find myself in this position. Wouldn't sleep without though!

There are certain transwomen who say I'm not literally a woman, obviously, I'm a biological male, but present as a women. The sexism is still a characteristic.

I think a lot of the anger stems from what essentially is the state broadcaster shining a negatively damaging light on a minoritised group who already face multiple challenges.

Maybe, but that's not a reason to not expose information on a problem being faced by another minoritised group who already face multiple challenges.

This is a clear clash between two such groups. One of which apparently needs to get its house in order.

To not shine a light would be to be complicit with what's happening. And would be an echo of the mindset that permitted Rotherham. Being a "minoritised group facing multiple challenges" is not a free pass for bad behaviour.

I think a lot of the anger stems from what essentially is the state broadcaster shining a negatively damaging light on a minoritised group who already face multiple challenges.

In case you're interested I was a non-binary deus-gendered person whose gender expression matched the sex I was assigned at birth. My SAAB was assigned by a midwife I can only assume was psychic as she read my chromosomes without a microwave or microscope or whatever you call those things.

I find your gender fascinating and would like to subscribe to your TikTok.

Though having pondered that one, I see that 'presenting' does depend on accepting that certain stereotypes are male-gendered and others female-gendered, so I shall go and drink more coffee.

Some of those people are probably gender critical, albeit they accept that they are men who like adopting stereotypes.

In which case they're not trans!

Hmm, wasn't there a (FTM, in their own terms) poster here called something -Hobbit, who described it along the lines of 'I recognise that I have a woman's body but have a need to present as male because it very much helps with the dysphoria'?

And I think Pidge (transwoman) described it in similar terms in reverse.