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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

BBC responds to backlash to article about lesbians being pressured into sex by some trans women

541 replies

FindTheTruth · 27/10/2021 20:59

BBC spokesperson said: “The article looks at a complex subject from different perspectives and acknowledges it is difficult to assess the extent of the issue.

“It includes testimony from a range of different sources and provides appropriate context. It went through our rigorous editorial processes.

“It is important that journalism looks at issues - even where there are strongly held positions. The BBC is here to ensure debate and to make sure a wide a range of voices are heard.”

attitude.co.uk/article/bbc-responds-to-backlash-to-article-about-lesbians-being-pressured-into-sex-by-some-trans-women-1/26090/

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LastSummerHere · 29/10/2021 08:22

[quote NancyDrawed]Enough4me

It's one of the rules of misogyny - The worst thing about male violence (against women) is that it makes men look bad

4w.pub/the-rules-of-misogyny/[/quote]

Cheers Nancy.

LastSummerHere · 29/10/2021 08:22

[quote Enough4me]@LastSummerHere isn't the worst thing the damage to women?

It's an own goal for the trans group, and unless they mobilise to request third spaces instead of women's spaces they will continue to look like bullies.[/quote]

Yes of course....sorry, I was referring to one of the rules of misogyny, where misogynistic men would prefer women shut up about their experiences because it makes them look and feel bad.

Scoutingformygirls · 29/10/2021 08:21

I am so so so disappointed in Ben Bradshaw. Disappointed and shocked.

A further look at his timeline also reveals he supports the treatment Kathleen Stock has received

I am not a constituent. I have met him previously and had interesting discussions in which he appeared to be a thoughtful man. I am truly shocked that he's made such unkind statements.

BatmansBat · 29/10/2021 08:19

Excellent point helleofabore

Helleofabore · 29/10/2021 08:17

But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers

Do you feel this when reading women’s experiences with rape and sexual assault by males in general?

Why do you think you feel differently with this article? What is the difference in your mind that made you jump to that conclusion?

MrsMadderRose · 29/10/2021 07:58

I saw a comment on Twitter from a genderwoo person who I know and who is female, saying that what’s going on is probably just that the lesbians find the transwomen attractive and don’t feel comfortable about it, so they hurl accusations. Shock

“You love it really” made woke :( Angry

NancyDrawed · 29/10/2021 07:58

Enough4me

It's one of the rules of misogyny - The worst thing about male violence (against women) is that it makes men look bad

4w.pub/the-rules-of-misogyny/

Enough4me · 29/10/2021 07:48

@LastSummerHere isn't the worst thing the damage to women?

It's an own goal for the trans group, and unless they mobilise to request third spaces instead of women's spaces they will continue to look like bullies.

LastSummerHere · 29/10/2021 07:24

The worst thing about (transgender) men's violence against women is it makes (transgender) men look bad.

EastWestWhosBest · 28/10/2021 22:46

@OnlyTheTitosaurusOfTheIceberg

Imagine reading an article about women’s actual experiences of being raped, coerced and pressured into unwanted sex, then having the choice between responding with “this is unacceptable, we need to make it clear we don’t condone any member of our community who treats a woman like this” or with “these so-called rape victims are bigots who are probably making it up anyway because this never happens” and choosing the second option.

WTF??

If it was, say, members of a football team that was being spoken about, women claiming that team members had forced them into unwanted sex, the other members of the team would be standing up to condemn it. And members of other teams would be saying how shocking it is. Well, I’d like to think so anyway. Or if it was members of a minority race or religion then you can bet leaders of that religion would be saying how they think this is dreadful etc. But to take the side of ‘why are you saying that all __ are rapists’ is just dreadful.
OnlyTheTitosaurusOfTheIceberg · 28/10/2021 22:38

Imagine reading an article about women’s actual experiences of being raped, coerced and pressured into unwanted sex, then having the choice between responding with “this is unacceptable, we need to make it clear we don’t condone any member of our community who treats a woman like this” or with “these so-called rape victims are bigots who are probably making it up anyway because this never happens” and choosing the second option.

WTF??

PeriChristmas · 28/10/2021 20:38

Echoing those suggestions above to add your comments:

Compliments to the BBC are needed to counter a mass TRA complaints campaign with 500 complaints yesterday alone about this article.

It will help the BBC seniors who signed off on it to have this quantitate and qualitative evidence to hand for their conversations with OfCom and MP's.

If you've not already done so can you send positive feedback on the article to the BBC here http://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/comments-feedback

This is the link to the article to paste into the BBC feedback form:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-57853385.amp

You could 1) say you've been aware of this for a long time, 2) say you've read the whole article (unlike the complainers) and 3) Use keywords 'Impartiality' and 'Impartial' as impartiality is a performance measure for director general Tim Davie.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-57853385

Whatstheweatherlike · 28/10/2021 19:43

[quote Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet]It's on the BBC news app now

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59074096[/quote]
Well played BBC. Quote the madness and hyperbole of the open letter directly, refuse to capitulate to the demand for a grovelling apology and then link to the original article so that it's back on the main news screen again (having been hidden for a couple of days). Result? Even more people will read it and be scratching their heads wondering what sort of a person would want to silence the voices of rape victims 👍

ErrolTheDragon · 28/10/2021 19:26

But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers

Only if your comprehension of plain English is extremely low.

TeamRex · 28/10/2021 19:12

But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers.

Was there anything in the article to suggest all men who say they are women act like this? I didn't notice it. In fact it had men who say they are women stating that they thought it was a bad thing.

I don't think the media should only do good news stories for minorities, the media should aim for a balanced picture of reality.

merrymouse · 28/10/2021 19:08

@VladmirsPoutine

PickAChew I don't believe in the current dogma TWAW, but equally I don't see trans people, or more specifically trans women, as essentially biological men playing make believe. But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers.
How could the article have been written differently?

Do you think it shouldn’t have been written at all?

jhuizinga · 28/10/2021 19:07

[quote Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet]It's on the BBC news app now

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59074096[/quote]
I'm glad to see this piece about the 'open letter' has a link to the original article so will give more people the opportunity to read the latter now it's been hidden away.

EdgeOfTheSky · 28/10/2021 18:47

@VladmirsPoutine

I think a lot of the anger stems from what essentially is the state broadcaster shining a negatively damaging light on a minoritised group who already face multiple challenges.
Yes.

But that doesn’t make it improper or gratuitously cruel / negative to draw a convection between the policy shift of a major national charity with a huge political and corporate influence, and the lived experience of people also facing multiple challenges.

The voices of lesbian women have been constantly derided and closed down in the emergence of the call or trans rights. The cotton ceiling workshop was exposed years ago, Get The L Out demo was how many years ago? The LGBA has taken a few years to set up and establish.

Meanwhile CG women have been dragged through the courts and been highlighted in the press for their views, bringing hate down on their heads.

I know trans people face harassment, hate crime, discrimination and attack. But I strongly suspect that their vulnerability on a late night bus is not due to feminists and / or lesbians.

The stats of women who have faced sexual assault/ harassment/ pressure for sex are really really high.

It would be nice to see Transwomen acknowledge this, understand it, join the fight for women to be free of unwanted sexual attention, rather than protest against and undermine them (as in the Filia and Girls Night In instances) , or become dismissive, in denial or defensive when Lesbians speak out about pressure from Transwomen.

Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 28/10/2021 18:45

PickAChew I don't believe in the current dogma TWAW, but equally I don't see trans people, or more specifically trans women, as essentially biological men playing make believe. But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers.

If that article had been about (some) men using some specific method to try and coerce women into sex, no one would have batted an eyelid, because its so endemic in our society we barely even notice it. It would have been blah blah, yes we know this, next.....

So how come when men simply 'identify as women', suddenly its absolutely impossible to believe that any of them would coerce women into sex and to even want to discuss it is hateful bigotry?

What is so fucking magical about the words 'I identify as a woman?

Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 28/10/2021 18:41

It's on the BBC news app now

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59074096

bordersroaming · 28/10/2021 18:23

Given that people are more likely to complain than praise , that's very good

AnyOldPrion · 28/10/2021 18:20

Mr Paisley appears to be a tad grumpy. The BBC are internally sharing a memo that says they received almost 2,500 positive comments on the article!

Keep commenting women!

BBC responds to backlash to article about lesbians being pressured into sex by some trans women
Datun · 28/10/2021 18:18

The reaction oh my God you think all transwomen are predators is because women are constantly having to come up with reasons why they don't want men in their spaces.

That's why certain people have taken an article to mean all transwomen. They see it as an attempt at justification to keep men out of women's spaces.

They think that if women can paint transwomen, in general, as predators, it's game over. Because, to them, women's assertion that they want their own spaces just isn't enough. They need a better reason. And they think that article is trying to get one.

If they would just allow women to say no, they wouldn't need to frame our arguments as disproportionate.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 28/10/2021 18:01

@NecessaryScene

Do you mean women?

I was meaning lesbians, specifically. The subject of the article...

Cool. I was a bit worried you meant trans men and women
Mochudubh · 28/10/2021 18:01

attitude.co.uk/article/rosie-jones-slams-bbc-article-about-lesbians-pressured-into-sex-by-some-trans-women-1/26087/

From The Attitude "backlash" article above.
"Stonewall co-founder Lisa Power also addressed the article on Twitter, writing: "I’ve been a lesbian for almost 50 years. I’ve known trans women, mostly lesbians, all that time". (my bold).

By mostly lesbians I infer that to be straight men but perhaps someone could make better sense of it than me.

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