Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DD and non binary friends and pronouns

39 replies

IAAP · 27/10/2021 16:47

I’ve always had the POV all of my D.C. are welcome to be themselves - I don’t mind who they choose as a partner and if say DD liked a girl - I didn’t have a problem with that.

DD has never ‘liked’ anyone this far but upon her return to school last year felt pressured to ‘declare’ her sexuality : gender etc she refused and said she hasn’t made up her mind yet.

Of her group of female friends - 4 have declared themselves non binary.
I’ve told DD that there is a biological sex in her dna, her sex organs - that surgery can remove, her gender which means what she thinks she is according to someone else’s description and then her sexuality which is who she is attached to.

Lots of her friends are changing their names and pronouns. One friend has changed her name, 3 times in 6 weeks - huffing and puffing when people don’t get it right - she has declared herself non binary and declared herself gender neutral and insists on they / them and corrected everyone around her should they fail to get the latest ‘change’ right. I took DD and her friends out for the day yesterday - omg it was dire. One unfortunate guy happened to say very nicely ‘what can I get you ladies’ at the cafe - she launched into a tirade about how she wasn’t female. On the way in to the cinema queue for the disabled toilet - number of females toilet x20 most free - she refused to use them. She went into a disabled toilet x1 and had a queue of 6 people waiting for it when she came out ……25 minutes later. DD was appalled as ‘they are not disabled’ friend says ‘I’m standing up for my rights’.

DD says she is finding her arguments tedious but wants a good push back on non binary. I said maybe think about non binary friend (who has declared she is a lesbian) and conversations over would she, as a lesbian, have sex with a trans woman who has just self Id as a women. Dd doesn’t want to be accused as a trans person phone - where can she go for unbiased discussion and to get more facts (teen friendly) that don’t push this all men are women if they say it? Dd thinks a man can become a women by a process of surgery and gender reassignment but that doesn’t change the biological sex only the outward appearance so you can look like a women. If gave her the rage to see her friend use the disabled toilet as she told friend - the door is the biological sign - inside are cubicles.

Help! She wants more information and ‘decent arguments’ other then what currently seems to be going round and round as cult ideology in her teen group.

OP posts:
DdraigGoch · 27/10/2021 17:40

I just can't believe that she spent 25 minutes in the toilets. Only person I ever knew who'd spend that long in there took a newspaper so that he could skive from work.

DdraigGoch · 27/10/2021 17:34

but the ones making the biggest fuss are the ones who like to make the biggest fuss about everything as far as I tell.

Yep. Drama queens are best avoided, for the sake of one's own sanity.

ethelredonagoodday · 27/10/2021 17:34

@Outbutnotoutout

Isn't everyone non-binary?

As in they don't conform to sex stereotypes.

I am a female, but can be in jeans one day and dresses the next.

Tbh non-binery is a load of bollocks.

Yep! This.
Outbutnotoutout · 27/10/2021 17:33

Isn't everyone non-binary?

As in they don't conform to sex stereotypes.

I am a female, but can be in jeans one day and dresses the next.

Tbh non-binery is a load of bollocks.

IAAP · 27/10/2021 17:32

@coronabeer

How old is your dd?

My younger dd is in a similar position to yours - apparently surrounded by "non-binary" people and trans boys. There are now 8 trans boys in her school year (140 pupils, girls school), plus who knows how many non-binary kids. It feels like someone else is converting on an almost weekly basis. Her older sister is 5 years older and knew of zero trans children in the same school.

DD2 feels like she's the only one who's sceptical about all this. But she's worried that she'd be ostracised if she ever let anyone else know what she actually thinks. So she tries to say as little as possible and just keep her head down.

I wish schools wouldn't indulge in all this, to be honest. It seems like a clear example of social contagion (most of the "trans boys" hang out together) How do you come back from a name change and insisting everyone refer to you as if you are of the opposite sex?

She's 14 but in some respects a young 14 -very much an academic geek -not street wise. Very confident.
OP posts:
IAAP · 27/10/2021 17:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

ethelredonagoodday · 27/10/2021 17:27

My DD has just started secondary and of her friendship group of 6, 2 of them are all over this stuff. They've already had a go at one of the girls for misgendering another child in their class, who had the day before decided to change their name, as they are non binary, and have said to the group that it's 'hurtful and disrespectful as they are part of that community.' They were also using bad language to get their point across, which I think shocked my DD.

DD and others in the group currently go along with it for a quiet life, but I can tell she already finds it a bit tedious. These kids are 11 and 12, some of them only just 11 at that. Friends all the way through primary, but the ones making the biggest fuss are the ones who like to make the biggest fuss about everything as far as I tell. They're also the ones who have the most unfettered access to the internet.

I can't offer any suggestions on materials or info, but wanted to let you know OP that there's others of us navigating this issue. It's not easy.

coronabeer · 27/10/2021 17:24

How old is your dd?

My younger dd is in a similar position to yours - apparently surrounded by "non-binary" people and trans boys. There are now 8 trans boys in her school year (140 pupils, girls school), plus who knows how many non-binary kids. It feels like someone else is converting on an almost weekly basis. Her older sister is 5 years older and knew of zero trans children in the same school.

DD2 feels like she's the only one who's sceptical about all this. But she's worried that she'd be ostracised if she ever let anyone else know what she actually thinks. So she tries to say as little as possible and just keep her head down.

I wish schools wouldn't indulge in all this, to be honest. It seems like a clear example of social contagion (most of the "trans boys" hang out together) How do you come back from a name change and insisting everyone refer to you as if you are of the opposite sex?

Franca123 · 27/10/2021 17:17

She needs new friends. And you have the patience of a saint. I would have given the friend's parents a run down of how the trip went and made it clear she wouldn't be invited again. I would be fuming. How is any of this acceptable?

RightsHoardingStegasaurus · 27/10/2021 17:11

I don't know of any teen friendly blogs but she might find this (now defunct) yt channel useful. I think most or all of the women have been interviewed on Benjamin Boyce's channel, too

youtube.com/channel/UCmGEMjyAwk6R1lTmG_JjLUA

Branleuse · 27/10/2021 17:08

id say to dd "oh dear, that sounds a bit embarrassing/awkward"
call everyone "they them" whatever the hell their pronouns are or their names and if they cant work out who anyone means, then at least it highlights the point of pronouns.

IAAP · 27/10/2021 16:59

@hamstersarse

I think I'd advise your dd to just find some new friends

That sounds so tedious and this they ( is that what you have to do?) will never listen even if the argument is sound, such is the narcissism

Unfortunately it is a bit of a craze at the moment in her school it is difficult. I want a teen friendly blog or discussion that she could go on. Or articles she could read etc

Get new friends is not an option I don’t think. It’s taken her a while to make friends with these. She has other friends at orchestra and drama as doesn’t hang out with these friends all the time

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 27/10/2021 16:52

It's a good point, OP. I don't know if there's anything out there for teens who want access to good, science based, female-positive info.

Hmm ...

hamstersarse · 27/10/2021 16:51

I think I'd advise your dd to just find some new friends

That sounds so tedious and this they ( is that what you have to do?) will never listen even if the argument is sound, such is the narcissism