Do Women Need Male "Allies"?

I hope I'm an ally to PoC and LGB people. Would I go on a panel to spout about it? No, that would be a total self-aggrandizing load of bollocks. My job during any event about someone else is to shut up and listen. So it the panel women talking about what they need, or men talking about what they do?

Yes. I'm the only woman in my department of 26. I can't do it all, especially when much of the industry is also like that. They can do as much as they like with women's networks and do on, but that remains a niche thing, and most of my male colleagues don't think they need to do anything, as long as they're not actively groping any woman by the photocopier (not that they're usually in the office these days.) Men, by being in the majority, create the company culture. If they don't see a need to change and make things more open to women, things won't change.

I think "allyship" is needed as long as the terms of that allyship are well defined and are actually helpful. So, not just a talking shop for men, nor a way for men to further their own personal prospects by having a public way to show their apparent inclusiveness. Who does the Male Allyship Panel report to? Who is setting the agenda? Who is setting the success criteria or expected outcomes? And so on.

We need them, because until men make misogynistic views and comments in all-male company unacceptable, nothing will really change. The misogynists don’t care what we think, they will only examine their views when other men stop tolerating them.

Interesting about Stonewall not wanting straight/cis allies any more though. Where does that leave all the brave straight men bravely displaying their pronouns in their email signatures? Is their bravery not valued?

Yes absolutely, although perhaps allies is the wrong wording. If you want something to change it is very difficult trying to do it with 50% or more of the employees not backing the change.

Many men, when the time is taken are more than willing to accept the changes and even happy to help implement them, the problem is when someone who is usually loud, angry and somewhat aggressive demands changes are made, with no explanation, changes which can often make no sense without explanation.

My dad was by far the greater feminist of my parents and helped make me the women I am now. So I think any man who has any influence over the growth and development of a girl or women, be that as a father, a teacher or a mentor to someone establishing themselves in a career, would do far more for sex equality by being "allies" to women.

I agree we need male allies, but not the ones that think they can take over and start telling women what to do.

Yes. Women do need male 'allies'. For so long the onus has been on women to 'protect' ourselves; taking steps like calling friends when we get home, wearing sensible shoes, not getting too drunk etc etc... but men have been found wanting in explaining what they can do to stop abusing / harassing women. I find it similar to having 'white allies' in the context of racism, it's not enough for white people to declare that they aren't racist therefore it's nothing to do with them.

I'd actually welcome an initiative aimed at men engaging with other men about not being arseholes. The women are tired and frightened.

I agree about Futrelle, NotTERF. Woke men often speak out of both sides of their mouths regarding respect for women.

So many men don't consider for a moment that women experience sexism & risk in their day to day lives. If your work is prepared to give time to raise awareness to that, why on earth would you disagree?

I'm not really interested in their suggestions what women can do to stop people being pricks, but they've a better idea what men can do to challenge sexism and misogyny.

Frankly I'm sick to the back teeth of women being asked 'what can we do to stop men hurting women' - ask a fucking man for a change, because if women had an answer to the patriachy, we'd be all over it.

Yes women have needed male allies - it would have been very hard to achieve political change without them, when the power rested with men. I think even now having male allies is generally a good thing. BUT. These men will have their own agenda whether they consciously know it or not. I've seen male feminists who were very good against men's rights activists side heavily with trans activists and tear viciously into 'terfs'. One example was David Futrelle. A real shame, I thought, but then perhaps his obsession with misogynistic males had something dubious about it anyway.