Changing sex is impossible

Well over 99% of humans have chromosomes, genitals, gonads, hormones and therefore physical and sexual development that all fit one of two consistent patterns. Well under 1% have any anomaly in that set of indicators. Trans people are no more likely to be in that 0.28% than anyone else. People in the 0.28%, conversely, are slightly more likely to identify as trans than the general population.

Nobody is seriously suggesting physical transition for young children - or if they are, there is at last consensus thay it's a truly terrible idea. So there is no part of sex that changes in a meaningful way in humans.

Strikes me that religious types or people with extreme political views usually love talking about their believes. Why don't people who who think we change sex want to tell us about their opinions? Is it simply that's it's so flimsy there's nothing to say? I guess religious types always fall back on faith. Do gender people need faith?

And, yet again, using individuals with DSDs in the TRA discussion as 'proof' of ideology is something many of those individuals have, individually and collectively across many SM streams, asked not to happen. Yet here we are, again!

A DSD isn't a bloody Gotcha! either!

Do we think this sex spectrum crap is going to go the way of the 'gendered soul'.

I'm sorry about all the questions but it drives me crazy that you can't get a straight answer to anything from these gender people. My friend thinks that sport shouldn't be male and female but we should have more categories to better reflect that reality of the sex spectrum. But no details are forth coming!!!!! Infuriating.

Hold on, Samphire. Most children with complete androgen insensitivity have an entirely female outward appearance as a child (though no womb or ovaries, as I understand it) and are raised as girls. For partial androgen sensitivity, the decision is a more complex one.

That's very different from someone with a bog-standard male body who transitions.

note: not all living creatures are sexed, of course. But this is the reproductive strategy of many creatures, including mammals, and it matters.

Then again Humpty was indeed an Identitarian!

A cannon on top of a church
Richard III
A nasty sounding cocktail of brandy and real ale
A little fat boy who couldn't climb
A pedant whose best known quote fits TRAs to a tee "“When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

Interesting you should introduce him here.

And a Gotcha! Well, yours is the more 'interesting' meaning I have seen. Never heard is described that way before.

An awful prize in an awful teatime show
Exposing someones wrong doings
Entrapment in order to explose worngdoings
An inescapable trap of logic
A counter intuitive yet valid construct that invites mistakes because it is both easy to invoke and unexpected or unreasonable in its outcome.
Being a good friend, covering a mate's back

There will be others. But none seem to fit your aganeda @jennywhitehorses

Do elucidate, be a dear!

To understand how divided we are by sex, think of evolution. Alll mammals are gonochoric, i.e. two-sexed. Our separation into male and female is far more deep than that, though. Our reptile ancestors were sexed, their ancestors were sexed, even before creatures had anything like a body, they were sexed. After surviving, reproducing is the second most important drive for any species. So it is the most real and unchangeable fact aboiut a creature's existence.

Mary, jesus and the poor wee fucking donkey! HOW???

You didn't answer anything., You made a statement of belief based on your utter misunderstanding of some quite basic science - and some very complicated corollaries.

The common understanding of gotcha in online debates is when people think they have an especially killer argument, often through sophistry, begging the question, poor analogies and disingenuousness.

It's pure point scoring, by which they can claim they "won".

randalrauser.com/2017/02/gotcha-worst-part-debates/

I've answered the first of your questions and I could answer the others but I have got to go now.

You're using the word 'gotcha' to mean something completely different from what it really means. Very Humpty Dumptyish. A gotcha is when you decide that someone has said something politically unacceptable (to you). It doesn't mean when somebody makes an argument that you don't like and resent.

[quote Franca123]@jennywhitehorses Does that mean that women don't exist? Or that they don't have XX chromosomes? Or that sex isn't binary? I really fail to understand the intersex argument. I really fail to see the relevancy. If you could explain this argument I would be grateful.[/quote]
@jennywhitehorses

Can you answer my three questions please? So I can better understand your position.

Because human beings have evolved so far that he richest amongst us have time and money to sit and navel gaze. Angst, worry and wish...

We can't go out. Space is still too far away, though very recent events have changed that a little bit.

So we look inwards. We fidgit, faddle around and decide that we are what we feel. We have spent decades discussing how much feelings, a sense of inner being, effects us on a daily basis alongside a lessening of the daily grind of hard work, the improvement of our living standards. We don't just live to work to exist any more.

So now our 'feelz' have currency.

Anyone who has read a lot of sci fi from 1870s onwards will know what happens in indolent societies, societies with a lot of leisure, technology, separation of generationa. This isn't much different from some Jules Verne, H G Wells, Robert Heinlein, Asimov, Doc Smith etc.

The new gotcha seems to be the concept of "different types of sex"

• chromosomal sex
• "hormonal sex"
• and some other types that I can't be arsed going back to look up but seems to be mainly about boob jobs and genital surgery

Oh, and the concept of "brain sex" never really went away.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

How can you say that it is nothing to do with them? You have women who are XY. Unless you think that they are really men. How can you say that it is not relevant? I would say that it is very relevant.

I'm saying that a woman can be XY. That's the opposite of saying that women don't exist.

For some TRAs, it’s a case of language manipulation and backfilling. You start from where you want to be and then change everything to logically lead you to this place. So, you were born male and want to be a female - ie change sex. Well, now what’s needed is to systematically go back and change definitions so that you are, in fact, female.

Sex can be brain sex or hormones or whatever works for your position. Male and female are a bit of a nuisance but you can redefine those or twist things around somehow so that you are, indeed, now female.

That’s the ultimate aim - rewriting reality to fulfil their chosen narrative. Changing sex being possible is just a part of that which can easily be achieved by redefining sex or pretending it’s so complicated it can be anything you like.

Imagine doing something so crazy with another factual thing like age. “It depends how long a year is because on Pluto it’s not 365 days so blah blah”, It’s nonsense, and the fact that this idiocy is even entertained is infuriating.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus but why is it a gotcha for the gender people? I knew a guy with 9 and a half fingers. Does his existence mean that humans don't have 10 fingers? I'm usually able to follow someone's thinking and then work out where they went wrong (or at least where I feel they went wrong). But this intersex thing boggles me.

As well known is the fact that people living with DSD/VSD repeatedly ask that they should not be used as gotchas or living shields in a controversial area that has nothing to do with them.

@jennywhitehorses Does that mean that women don't exist? Or that they don't have XX chromosomes? Or that sex isn't binary? I really fail to understand the intersex argument. I really fail to see the relevancy. If you could explain this argument I would be grateful.

There are XY women and always have been. There is something called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.