Changing sex is impossible

Presumably they agree that the sweet spot where a man is "good to go" in women's sports is identical to the sweet spot where a man is "good to go" in the bed of a heterosexual man or a lesbian woman?

I didn’t go there 🤔 didn’t get to it rather than refused to do it

He doesn’t think it now….

Ticklist not ticklish...

People don't deny it, not if they get pinned down to that level of detail. They just say it's irrelevant or private or that plenty of 'people' post hysterectomy don't have a cervix. The idea of a human as a ticklish of organs instead of a living sexed developed being.

A transwoman can never get cervical cancer. A transman can never get prostate cancer. In their heart of hearts they must know this, even if they deny it until they are blue in the face.

I keep reading about this "current medical thinking" but never from actual medical sources

Maybe you could cite some of those medical sources (ie not pop sci mags, sociologists, youtube videos and Twitter accounts).

@Fieldofgreycorn

"There are 2 sexes. Sex is made up of more than just chromosomes or gametes. You can change aspects of your physical sex. Some people change their sex hormones, their secondary sex characteristics and to some extent their primary sex characteristics."

So what? They can never know what it is to be born and brought up and be the sex that they are not? If I were able to fuse a horn to my forehead and it were to somehow start growing I would still be 100% human (only with a horn); I would not be even 1% of the way to becoming a unicorn.

"As a society we treat these people - for most purposes - as if they have changed sex. Socially, legally and to some extent medically. (Where appropriate)."

I cannot believe that anyone is ever treated medically as anything other than their biological sex, subject to previously undertaken interventions, unless a mistake is being made.

That the law lies says nothing other than the law lies.

Socially I strongly suspect that most trans women are treated as men, trans women or people the vast majority of the time and are very rarely treated as women.

"Some people that do this resemble their transitioned sex more closely than others. Those that do have less problems being accepted as their transitioned sex in most situations. Those that don’t… well yes there is an element of politeness involved."

Yep. Similarly, fraudsters who closely resemble honest people have fewer problems conning innocent members of the public, whereas those who are blatant fraudsters are humoured but never get their hands on innocent people's money.

Humans cannot change sex. Those who think that it is possible also admire the emperor's new clothes.

Some people change their sex hormones, their secondary sex characteristics and to some extent their primary sex characteristics.

To borrow your phrase, so what?

Yes, a male bodied person can alter their hormones, have surgery to cosmetically alter their body. But a male person with altered hormones and a cosmetically altered body does not become a female person. They are an altered male, superficially similar to a female person. Nothing about those changes gives them a female hormone system or female primary or secondary sex characteristics. It gives them altered male ones.

You are asking women to show "politeness" to male bodied people who don't pass as female. My question is why?

So what?

There are 2 sexes. Sex is made up of more than just chromosomes or gametes. You can change aspects of your physical sex. Some people change their sex hormones, their secondary sex characteristics and to some extent their primary sex characteristics.

As a society we treat these people - for most purposes - as if they have changed sex. Socially, legally and to some extent medically. (Where appropriate).

We do this because current medical thinking is that there is likely a mixture of factors, genetic, biological, social and cultural that lead to the development of a cross sex identity. So far attempts to change gender identity have failed. Therefore the next best thing (for male to female and female to male people) has been done which is to support people to transition to, and live as, their new sex (which some call gender). People are able to function and contribute to society when supported to do so.

Some people that do this resemble their transitioned sex more closely than others. Those that do have less problems being accepted as their transitioned sex in most situations. Those that don’t… well yes there is an element of politeness involved.

If this person is a heterosexual man I am hoping that you made it very clear that the sweet spot where a man who is trans is welcome in women's sport is presumably the same as the sweet spot where this person should be open to exploring this woman's penis or neo-vagina.

Sorry - there is evidence, their own words, there is no independently verifiable evidence.

Equally there is not one shred of evidence that anyone believes that they have changed sex, or that anyone believes anyone can change sex.

Anyone seen a decent definition of what it means to be female? By a transwoman? Nope. Me neither.

When anyone finally gets one, let us all know.

The comparatively late age at which some cohorts transition mean that extensive surgery is unwise, particularly against the backdrop of cross-sex hormones and any associated changes to cardiovascular and other health.

Scott Newgent had a recent piece about surgery and it's a testament to some medical care that Scott survived:

The point is that, as Scott writes, "trans health doesn't really have a justiciable baseline." If a surgeon botches your gall bladder operation, there are criteria by which to judge him or her. Or mastectomies, a relatively simple and straightforward procedure.

But, although increasingly common nowadays, "bottom surgery," still relatively rare compared to most surgeries, is extremely complex and fraught with potential downsides, even those done by competent surgeons. Not all gender dysphoric children go on to bottom surgery as adults, but gender dysphoric adults are the only people who get bottom surgery.

thepostmillennial.com/transman-twitter-banned-for-speaking-against-gender-transition-of-children-fights-back?s=04

Franca, you ask good questions. And as far as evolution goes, the existence of DSDs fits in with evolution perfectly. In every generation of a species, there is a certain number of individuals born with anomalous features. Some are disadvantageous, but rarely, some are advantageous. For example, in an area where there was a lot of pollution, the few dark-feathered chicks of a white-feathered species of birds were more likely to survive. Eventually, more and more members of the group in that area would become dark-feathered. Perhaps over time, they would develop enough differences to breed with other birds and become a new species. Therefore, the fact that a few individuals in each generation are born with variations is accounted for. But that does not mean that people with DSDs can become a new "species." Because the very mechanism of reproduction is the one that also the one that creates sex. The fact is, men and women with DSDs are normal variants, they are just as much a part of the spectrum WITHIN each of our sexes, but it is rare for the variations on sexuality they have to result in improved reproduction, though this means nothing else in terms of them being valid, useful, and perfectly normal men and women.

If human beings could change sex, practically the only 'women' left would have started life as male, because all the natal women would have decided it's far easier to exist on this planet as male and have changed into men.

I have a friend who insists that trans women should be allowed into female spaces if they have “fully transitioned” but what does that actually mean? Or more importantly does she think it means they are now female?

It's a funny spectrum with 99 percent at one end or another...... it would almost look like two massive blobs next to one another.

Disordered sexual development is NOT a state of human being, it is, as the name suggests, a disorder of that state. A biological, genetic hiccup. They prove nothing, other than nature is a weird and wonderful thing!

Can I go back to leaving those who want to be left alone, alone now? Can we all?

Oh no, silly me. If that were at all possible then women would not be having any issue saying no and nobody would be asserting that human beings can change sex!

She must be basing this on more than an infographic? Wtaf

Doubtful.

I mean as I said not only would dsds not be dsds if sex really was a spectrum , what's transition if sex is a spectrum?. I mean what are you transitioning to or from?

The 'author' was an infographic designer. I mean, I really hope there's more science behind this than that? Where would I go to get credible scientific talking about it? I mean, my friend wants sports categories to reflect the sex spectrum. She must be basing this on more than an infographic? Wtaf.

If sex was a spectrum DSDs wouldn't be DSDs would they ?

I've had a quick Google to try to understand thr sex spectrum. It seems to be a load of DSDs arranged on a funky looking infographic...... Is that the long and the short of the science behind a sex spectrum? An infographic?

CAIS individuals are gentically male, don't have a uterus and are infertile. they arent bog-standard women and they represent 1 in 100,000 people with male genetics, who are only 49% of the population. s 1/100,000th of 49%. So nothing about these very few unfortunate people that have a rare medical condition that means we need to consider sex in any other way than the standard small-gamete producing & large gamete-producing binary. They do not represent a spectrum.

I got the feeling Jenny very much is aware of DSDs and was just saying that it's unfair to say that no woman has XY chromosomes. But it can be hard to pick up tone from text.