For the Attention of Posters in the "bloody terf" thread

Nobody ever said that trans women are the same as cis women. It's just the fact that you refuse to treat trans women as women at all, not even a different kind of woman, that precludes any kind of solidarity.

What do you mean 'treat transwomen as women'? Do you mean letting biological males into female spaces?

well, another tantrum

how completely and utterly super

"I'm not straight, I'm normal!! You're the ones who are abnormal and need a special word, not me!!"

That's what you sound like, except towards trans people instead.

Women don't want to be made a subset of their own sex class by males, so that males can try and insert themselves into that class.

Should I demonstrate to you that words can in fact be psychologically harmful or something

Yeah it includes the mass gaslighting of gender ideologists forcing us to hear about that woman rapist, or that woman with the penis winning women's awards in sport.
How we're now people with a cervix, people with ovaries or people with a vagina or people with breast take your pick of chosen body parts.
We're people who menstruate, birthing bodies, people who have the menopause, choose from the list.
So long as you make sure to never ever refer to us as what we are without a qualifier that we're "not male" first.
But who gives a fuck about psychological harm through words when it's only women affected?

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee
"You don't need to be the same to have solidarity - how ridiculous"
Nobody ever said that trans women are the same as cis women. It's just the fact that you refuse to treat trans women as women at all, not even a different kind of woman, that precludes any kind of solidarity.

"And yes it bloody would hurt to use an adjective like cis because, as has been outlined loads of times before - most women are not cis."
Hahahahhahaha. Cis means not trans. That's it. Nothing else. Are you saying trans women make up the majority of all women? Now that's a novel idea.

*"I'm not straight, I'm normal!! You're the ones who are abnormal and need a special word, not me!!"

That's what you sound like, except towards trans people instead.*

Again, you cannot argue the different needs between two distinct groups of people if you have to use the same name for them. This is why you have to force us to use cis or refer to transwomen as women. So that you can ignore the actual real differences between women and male human beings that identify as not being men. Transwomen are normal. Normal biological non-women.

[quote SpookySeason77]@Waitwhat23
"women are told that they are committing literal violence if they misgender someone or use incorrect pronouns"

There's that callous dismissive exaggeration again... It is verbal abuse, in the same way calling someone a slur is.

Should I demonstrate to you that words can in fact be psychologically harmful or something? Because for some reason you seem to struggle to understand the concept.[/quote]
You really don't see your hypocrisy there? Really? Calling someone something they don't identify with vs. ....calling someone something they don't identify with?

And you've very handily ignored the first part of my pp - about how 'cis' is made up nonsense.

Should I demonstrate to you that words can in fact be psychologically harmful or something? Because for some reason you seem to struggle to understand the concept.

This comes across very much as a threat. I shouldn't be surprised though. Women are used words being used as threats towards them - www.terfisaslur.com

"I'm not straight, I'm normal!! You're the ones who are abnormal and need a special word, not me!!"

cor blimey

the word for adult human males is men

Does 'cis' mean you have and can identify a gender identity, that is called the same word that is used to describe your biological sex?

Given your belief in gender identity, spooky, why the insistence on misgendering women who don't believe?

I am no more "cis" than I am a sinner or infidel.

Spooky, can you come up with other arguments that the one that says we have to accept you labelling us with a gender identity because otherwise it hurts feelings? Been there, done that.

As far as the usage of transwoman goes, other forms are banned on MN. So transwoman is all we have left. We can't call them woman because a. they aren't female humans and b. it is hard to argue the difference between two separate groups and their different conflicting needs if you have to use the same term for them. But I think that is probably your goal...

I Don't believe transwomen are women. I think they are deluded men. There, I've said it. I was perfectly happy to pretend and be kind, back in the day when they weren't harming anyone. No more. Most women (and men) agree. If your sense of identity is so fragile that you can't accept that people don't believe what you do, then you need help to come to terms with it and, frankly, it's your problem.

*I mean, you're the one who seems to insist on invalidating trans women's identities and reinforcing a seperation at every turn, seen even here with "TW and women", seemingly pressing the point on how they're "not real women" and inadvertently alienating them in the process.

This doesn't exactly encourage solidarity.

It wouldn't actually hurt to use adjective like "cis" to identify someone as not being trans – that's what the term means. The persistent need to assert yourself "above" trans women is more a matter of pride than anything else.*

You don't need to be the same to have solidarity - how ridiculous.
And yes it bloody would hurt to use an adjective like cis because, as has been outlined loads of times before - most women are not cis. Because to be cis you have to have a gender identity and most people don't. The term does not mean not trans, it means gender identity matching biological sex. So to call women cis is mid-gendering and aggressive. Difference does not mean one group has to be superior to the other - not sure why you are so insistent on seeing that way.

That's like demanding of gay people to just call you normal instead of "straight/hetero" in return for you not calling them slurs
🙄

A better equivalence would be navigating the world if gay people demanded that we call them "heterosexual" just like all the other straight people, because they don't want to be differentiated from heterosexuals.

We comply, and if we refuse they call us names, send us rape and death threats, call the police to arrest us, hound us from our jobs and silence us from social media.

In return we ask them to negotiate a term that we are happy with to describe ourselves if that's quite alright, but they find that very difficult.

The influx of disingenuous posters over the last day or so is, I presume, one of those periodic screenshot/deletion runs from Twitter.

That's like demanding of gay people to just call you normal instead of "straight/hetero" in return for you not calling them slurs.

Please don't weaponise gay people in your arguments - it's not necessary and we've been used enough in all of this.

Silly disappears, spooky materialises.