For the Attention of Posters in the "bloody terf" thread

Good thing we do have different names then: "trans women" and "cis women". Two subsets of the larger group, "women", to which both subsets belong

So apparently I am "a bigot" for saying transwomen are male, despite up thread a trans poster claimed TW don't deny their own biology or however it was put, don't claim to be the same as women.

On the other hand we have a dogmatic gender ideologist refusing to accept, in fact laughs in the face of women who repeatedly explain how "cis" is extremely offensive with lots of examples of why and explanations, they then go on to repeat themselves in using "cis" and no one has yet called them a bigot. When you actually understand the definition of "bigot" that is surprising.

No, many of us simply reject the insistence that we all have a gender identity at all.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee
"You don't need to be the same to have solidarity - how ridiculous"
Nobody ever said that trans women are the same as cis women. It's just the fact that you refuse to treat trans women as women at all, not even a different kind of woman, that precludes any kind of solidarity.

What do you mean "refuse to treat transwomen as women at all?" I don't understand what you're saying here. If we accepted your definition of woman as being related to some ephemeral identity - what would it mean to treat someone like a person who had that identity (or one of those identities given no evidence for commonality of identity)? Are you actually talking about the request to keep sex-segregated spaces sex segregated? But they're not segregated according to your definition of identity. Why do you think they should be?

"And yes it bloody would hurt to use an adjective like cis because, as has been outlined loads of times before - most women are not cis."
Hahahahhahaha. Cis means not trans. That's it. Nothing else. Are you saying trans women make up the majority of all women? Now that's a novel idea.*

Not sure what your logic is here? I said most women are not cis. How on earth would that suggest trans women make up the majority of women? Unless you are suggesting that only people who identify as women are women? If that were true then yes I would think that trans women do form the vast majority of women. It's not true though. You seem to disagree with Stonewall's definition of cis. This is what they say
"According to the National Health Service's Gender Identity Development Service (NHS GIDS), being cisgender means that you identify with the gender that you were assigned by birth. For example, if you are born a woman and you decide that you agree with that definition, it would meant that you are cisgender."*

So yeah, you need to identify with a gender to be cis. You really should educate yourself. Then you might understand why people are feeling misgendered by your insistence on putting us in the boxes that you have socially constructed.

A lot of surprising assertions on this thread, but I’m really stuck on the part where talking about the characteristic we share with over four billion other humans means that we think we’re special.

Such a bizarre thing to say. The resentment for women is practically dripping off the screen. It gives me the creeps.

So you're a transphobe, fine enough. Now can you please cease your incessant screeching and flailing around whenever your blatant bigotry is called out for what it is?

Why is it that everyone should do what you want, but when you are asked not to use gay people as an example of something else, you decide to ignore my request and instead go on to post something overtly homophobic, then ignore the posters calling you out on it?

Why do you deserve respect but other people don't?

Did you ever answer these points?

Uh, that's called being cisgender, yeah. It means your gender identity is the same as assigned at birth.
Or "observed" as you call it, whatever.

Cool. I'm not cis then, and having discussed this with most of the people posting here, neither are most of them.

(I don't have a gender assigned at birth, there is no record of it, and I notice you changed my wording from 'sex' to 'gender, which I believe is transphobic to conflate the two, but I'll overlook your transphobia this once and assume you meant sex).

As a trans person, can I ask that you please stop telling women they are screeching when they are actually typing text on a text-based forum? It's not helping our cause.

Oooft, the footstamping is something to behold. 'You have to do what I say!'. Very toddler like.

@SpookySeason77

I mean, you're the one who seems to insist on invalidating trans women's identities and reinforcing a seperation at every turn, seen even here with "TW and women", seemingly pressing the point on how they're "not real women" and inadvertently alienating them in the process.

This doesn't exactly encourage solidarity.

It wouldn't actually hurt to use adjective like "cis" to identify someone as not being trans – that's what the term means. The persistent need to assert yourself "above" trans women is more a matter of pride than anything else.

You misunderstand.

The criteria by which a trans woman understands herself to be a woman, and by which I understand myself to be a woman, are mutually exclusive.

I understand myself to be a woman because that is (was) the word for people with a female body. (The older ones anyway, the younger ones are (were) girls.)

A trans woman uses a different criteria. I don't know exactly what, I do ask but all I ever get is a list of what it is not, or "it's just what label you want to use". But the one thing I do know is that it cannot be the same as my definition because she is not female-bodied.

So the only thing that defines me as a woman is my body, and the one thing that cannot define a trans woman as a woman is hers.

Do you see the problem? If one of us, me or her, is a woman, the other cannot be. One of us has to step aside.

It's not just a case of "cis means not trans", if I were to call myself cis it means implicitly accepting for myself a definition of womanhood that I simply do not meet.

In the genderist rush to redefine womanhood as a state of mind so it can include trans women, they are also taking it away from me.

Genderists make a big thing about misgendering when it's the wrong label being applied but fail to acknowledge there is no difference between applying the wrong label to someone, and changing the meaning of the label someone already uses to something that does not apply for them.

And even so, I would be prepared to accept that, to give trans women more respect than they allow me and to step out of womanhood, except where do I step to? I don't stop being female, so whether I call myself a woman or not, I still need "women's rights", which are of course really female rights, since they were set up when "Woman" and "Female" were synonymous.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes
"and we're not interested in segmenting out young women who identify as voidgender."
Guess what, AFAB non-binary people want absolutely nothing to do with you anyway. It's not like anything you do is actually helping them, quite the opposite, so cut the "for your own good" routine.

OK, I'll try again.
Does 'not trans' mean you have and can identify a gender identity, that is called the same word that is used to describe your biological sex?

A transwoman is literally, by definition, not the same sex as me. My sex is woman, I am a woman because of my sexed body.

Therefore I do not have womanhood, as I understand it along with most other humans and the dictionary, as a shared characteristic with transwomen. So why do I have to say we are all women?

A male can identify as a woman on some other basis/definition but that doesn’t mean I have to agree.

Plenty of transwomen understand this.

Bet no one expect that

@saluca
"Again, you cannot argue the different needs between two distinct groups of people if you have to use the same name for them."
Good thing we do have different names then: "trans women" and "cis women". Two subsets of the larger group, "women", to which both subsets belong.

That way you can use "women" to refer to the issues that affect both cis and trans women, and "cis women" to refer to the issues that affect cis women specifically.

"I'm not straight, I'm normal!! You're the ones who are abnormal and need a special word, not me!!"

That's what you sound like, except towards trans people instead.

Wowsers.

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse for gay people. Turns out it could!

Hahahahhahaha. Cis means not trans. That's it. Nothing else.

Well, hahahahahaha transwomen are male. That's it.
Women don't need a qualifier to describe us as "not male" that's it. We're just women. That's it. Nothing else.