For the Attention of Posters in the "bloody terf" thread

I'm absolutely certain all of you are cis, and not non-binary.

So - you have delineated two separate categories. 'cis', which you say is synonymous with 'not trans', and separately, 'not non-binary'.

I wonder why spooky excludes non-binary people from the trans umbrella? Are we meant to be doing this now?

Exactly PickAChew and these dogmatic zealots act all surprised when we don't suddenly say

"Oh yes, we'll we don't normally like males in women's spaces because abcxyz but this particular male here, the one that seems to especially despise women and has a total disregard for consent and boundaries, this one we'll welcome in!"

Your complaints about trans women being called women are no different from "sancity of marriage" bullshit.

You insist that the word must mean the thing you want it to mean, and that all other uses of the word are invalid.

Same nonsense about "redefining of words".

Pointing out that your transphobic rhetoric perfectly mirrors homophobic rhetoric from the 80s is "offensive" to you, why exactly? Is it just the fact you don't like being called out, having a mirror held out to you?

Have you even read any of my posts?

What did you find transphobic about them? I have tried to engage with you but was ignored every time, even when asking you not to be homophobic.

I didn’t make a joke. I asked you a question, which you didn’t answer. You have confirmed that facetious gender identities, unlike every other kind of gender identity, are illegitimate, but you haven’t explained why.

Like… is this a religion? Why is sincere belief, or willingness to perform sincere belief, such a critical ingredient of a “gender identity?”

[quote SpookySeason77]@PurgatoryOfPotholes
"Still sure every member on here must be "cis"?"
Considering all of you aggressively reject the very notion of a gender identity that diverges from the one assigned at birth... yes, I'm absolutely certain all of you are cis, and not non-binary.[/quote]
Actually if we were to use the terms of your ideology, most of us are agender. Which is a valid identity, right? We don't have gender identities to match (or not match) our sex.

The confusion comes in because we use the word 'woman' to refer to biological sex alone, while you use it to refer to gender. Acknowledging that difference, even if you disagree with our usage, woukd prevent misconceptions like this one here.

No feminist is 'cis'.

And spooky is yet another make with no regard for consent.

Pointing out that your transphobic rhetoric perfectly mirrors homophobic rhetoric from the 80s is "offensive" to you, why exactly? Is it just the fact you don't like being called out, having a mirror held out to you?

1. Gaslighting
2. Cis is offensive, can you please stop using it you should not need to be asked again
3. Can you please stop comparing the gay rights cause with gender ideology imposition because the two things could not be more different and you should not need to be asked again.

Tonight Matthew I am a gender outlaw.

Tomorrow I may be omnigender.

An outlaw and God, that'll do me nicely. None of this cis stuff, begone heathens.

[quote SpookySeason77]@saluca
"Again, you cannot argue the different needs between two distinct groups of people if you have to use the same name for them."
Good thing we do have different names then: "trans women" and "cis women". Two subsets of the larger group, "women", to which both subsets belong.

That way you can use "women" to refer to the issues that affect both cis and trans women, and "cis women" to refer to the issues that affect cis women specifically.[/quote]
If you're so keen on telling us what we must call ourselves, I'm sure you won't mind if we point out that you're displaying stereotypical male entitlement.

See, the thing is, there'd be nothing stopping you from genuinely identifying as non-binary.

Or a trans man, or a trans woman.

Wait but why aren’t facetious gender identities allowed? What is this weird rule that people have to take their declared “gender identity” seriously, when there are literally no other rules about it?

Pointing out that your transphobic rhetoric perfectly mirrors homophobic rhetoric from the 80s is "offensive" to you, why exactly? Is it just the fact you don't like being called out, having a mirror held out to you?

If I'm mirroring someone who raises their left arm, I raise my right.
So by 'mirroring' you mean doing the opposite?

Aren't you the ones trying to dictate for trans women how they have to identify, or which spaces they shouldn't be allowed to use?

Transwomen can identify however they like but they can't force people to believe something which is not true.
Moreover, why should transwomen be allowed into female only spaces when they are not female?

Why is it transphobic to say TW are male? If they weren’t male they wouldn’t be trans. Are supposed to say TW are female? That would be a paradox wouldn’t it?

Also Cis means same side as, so for that to be true of me something (“gender identity”) would have to be the same as something else (“gender assigned” at birth) but I don’t have either of those things so they can’t be the same as each other, so I’m not cis.

However if it did mean “not trans” it would be unnecessary anyway. Woman and transwoman is fine because the meaning of trans shows that the person is not the sex named.

It is not comparable to “straight” at all.
Gay and straight are mutually exclusive opposites that makes sense as definitions, which is why no one I’ve ever met who does not like “cis” ever objected to straight.

Cis is not needed because transwoman and woman contain all the info.

Considering all of you aggressively reject the very notion of a gender identity that diverges from the one assigned at birth... yes, I'm absolutely certain all of you are cis, and not non-binary

You're either mistaken or lying.
By your own definition I'm not cisgender.

Just out of interest spooky, why DID you change the wording in the question I asked (biological sex) to 'gender identity assigned at birth'?
Are you saying they are the same and the terms are interchangeable?

Or did you just get it wrong - in which case can you answer the question I actually asked? Or will you ignore it because you are unable to?

I couldn't care less how they identify. Genuinely. Couldn't give a fuck. I generally try to respect chosen pronouns etc. What I do object to is being told how I have to identify, without my agreement, using a term I don't identify with. It's, as I've said before, rank hypocrisy and no amount of foot stamping is going to make me agree.

The spaces? You may not like it but there are allowances given in the Equality Act 2010 for single sex spaces (in most cases for females) such as rape crisis services. Human beings cannot change sex. That's not a value judgement, just a simple fact. If someone was born male, whoever they now identify, they are still not eligible to access those single sex spaces, on account of their sex.

So you're a transphobe, fine enough. Now can you please cease your incessant screeching and flailing around whenever your blatant bigotry is called out for what it is?

So, by your definition then, you are a woman phobe? Can you now stop your incessant aggression, tantruming and attempts to shut down conversations in which people refuse to bow to your superiority? Can I call out your blatant misogyny and self aggrandizement for what it is?

Just to be clear, as spooky agreed with my definition - for cisgender people, the word used to describe your gender - which could be woman - must be the same as the one to describe your sex - which could be female - so woman-gender+ female-sex = trans.

If the word used to describe your gender is 'none' and your sex is 'female' then presumably you are trans.

What if you have a sex observed at birth (eg female), a gender identity assigned a birth (eg if your parents resolved to raise you as non-binary) but you later identify as a third descriptor (e.g. woman) - are you doubly trans?

Different forms of bigotry are often similar to each other, use the same strategies. This is no different.