The Mess We're In - Video disappeared?

Yes, very true. Sometimes we're so desperate for scraps we'll take anything as a win. I'd love to see more all-female/ mainly female films but the people financing them (men) would need to see the point of something not aimed at them.

I felt so let down by Wonder Woman (after the first great 30 mins with no men in!) because it felt like everyone was saying "you'll like this ladies, this one is for you" but it was still aimed at men!

Hope this doesn't derail the thread but had to reply to this:

Who else? Where are the fantasy films/shows with a predominantly female cast in the same vein as Xena? Girls deserve fantasy or at least shows with a female led case which isn't just a school or family drama focused on all the ups and downs of real life. They need proper escapism too where women are centred because they deserve to be there.

Not an all female cast but I think Black Panther is the best film in the last few years for this, despite being centred on a man. Several awesome female characters especially Okoye (the general) and Shuri (Panther's younger sister). Nakia also has her own life and isn't just his girlfriend. Real people with wants, ideas, relationships (family and friend ones, not just sexual ones) and inner worlds of their own. Smashes the Bechdel test. I love it so much! Gutted that Chadwick Boseman isn't around to do a sequel. Also wondering what they will do next, esp if it involves Shuri as the younger sister and possible new Black Panther???!

Sorry, as you were!

I watched the Blanchard interview and found it valuable a sunlight sort of way. Helen's discomfort and Arty's over enthusiasm gives insight into where we are and how we got here. It is obvious that men still don't fully take on board the impact on women.

Blanchard's rant in the end came off as defensive. Maybe he is coming to the realization that the transition treatment protocol was not benign. I would have liked to ask Blanchard if he ever pushed back and told his clients that they could never be women and that they needed to explore other areas of relieving their distress.

Because they talked over and contradicted Helen a lot of the time, because at the end Blanchard basically blamed women for AGP angry, and talked about how he's 'tired of people blaming men and AGPs

Thanks, @CreepingDeath - yes, I too, was a bit put off by the talking over Helen S., and also Blanchard's final quite ranting statement about the rle of women in this.

I wasn't so irritated or disappointed by most of the information he offered - I'm prepared to see that he's coming at it as a clinician, with a lifetime of experience, rather than in the rather nasty politics of transactivism. And he clearly had no truck with transactivism.

I thought his & Arty's discussions of trying to make the parallels between AGP, and nuanced distinctions between homosexuality as often misogynistic, but not necessarily misogynistic, were interesting.

BUt such distictions don't help when women's presence, history, even ability to speak publicly, are being attacked.

However, overall, I found it interesting and a very clear unemotional (as neutral as it might be possible to be on an inherently emotive topic!) discussion from Blanchard of his kowledgge from research & years of clinical work.

In my view, the kind of research Blanchard (and others) do, and the hurly-burly of the politics that we are all being thrown into, are different - each informs the other, but they're not the same. It was a useful reminder of some reason and rationality in this whole mess.

I paraphrase, but B Cohen mentioned the inner feelings of males who identify as women and then of course these should be validated by accessing women's single sex spaces. Nolan didn't just let the bar go at the level of any crime (overt physical/criminal, I presume) being committed. He asks about the comfort of women mattering. Don't forget Cohen roughly said that males should be confirmed in their feelings. There was no response/ tumbleweed by Cohen in return at Nolan's query about the comfort/discomfort of women. It was if 'sure why on earth would anyone have to consider the feelings/comfort of women'.

It was very telling. The feelings of men was to be elevated to a sacred cow status. All women's feelings or comfort/discomfort was beyond worthy of consideration. It sounded (to me) as if women are considered lesser humans which needn't be considered. Why would anyone consider women's safety and comfort when a male (a god in contrast to women) wanted to do something.

I suspect any woman who had asked about women's comfort would be vilified as transphobic. And too uppity by far asking a godhead to consider them; especially if it were to impede a male's wishes.

It made me think that some males peddle a view of humans which must view males are the godhead. Women are those sort of flawed things which are used for comfort and drudgery roles when needed. And for popping out other humans.

I really liked Nolan for considering the comfort of women to be relevant. Not just the feelings of men, or only addressing the aftermath of a criminal act.

Thanks ladies, I have been educated!! I'd never heard of 'slash' fiction. Or fiction, written by females, starring their vision of gay males! I just didn't know that it was a 'thing'.

Explains a lot

One thing I’ve noticed about the girls who are into slash etc, is that they are often portrayed as highly emotional when in fact that are more often highly sexed.
Highly sexed women, with a flair for the sensual and creative, don’t have many avenues to explore their own feelings. Writing about heterosexual sex is difficult if the only sex you’ve ever seen is through porn, or your own teenage experiences left you feeling used and unsatisfied. Being a sexual woman is hard. It’s thorny in ways that are deeply personal for teenagers. For some girls it feels dangerous and violating.
We need to know why some girls aren’t able to write female fantasies that feel true and real and satisfying. Young girls are transitioning to become gay men for really complicated reasons. If they’re escaping reality then we have to change reality, or more and more girls will throw in the towel to become something they mistakingly see as ‘safer’.

I've not watched it yet, FindTheTruth.
Have seen some TRAs frothing over Julia Long's contribution so wonder if they'll cover that.

Did they bother talking about the conference again in the video? they only covered 5 mins before focusing on TRAs.

TambourineofRighteousness
I do think there is an additional factor of teen girls becoming so immersed in online slash fandoms and fiction that they want a chance to develop the same sorts of romantic gay relationships that they are reading/watching online. Those relationships are safe and are written by women, the male relationships in these stories play out as women would want them to, exploring emotions and slow burns. It's basically Mills and Boons. Pure fantasy and escapism, no basis in reality.

I remember an interview with a de-transitioner on Benjamin Boyce's podcast that tended to support this. She was a young woman who loved gay romance fanfiction, and said it was partly because the roles were more equal, and she hated how in male/female romance stories or in movies etc. the women were portrayed as helpless etc. And the men dominated. She finally acknowledged that she was a lesbian and detransitioned.

The other thing is, that there isn't the same comparable level of danger or threat to men from these women that there would be from males who the same thing.
In fact, that same young woman talked about the hierarchy in the trans 'community' and how transmen (i.e. biological women) were at the bottom of the pile - of course they were! And also the age thing, most of the trans-identified males were middle aged, but the trans identified females were teenagers. There is such a power imbalance.

I've also heard a lot of podcast hosts say it's hard to get the balance of pushing back on a guest when they're talking shite, but also knowing that person has given up their time to talk to you and that you don't want to be rude to a guest and deter others from coming on the show.

Stephen Nolan is unusually competent at this and it's a under-recognised skillset.

The whole thing was weird, I agree that he was a 'guest' as such, and they probably didn't want to challenge him too much, but there were really uncomfortable moments that should have been challenged, even in a polite way.

And yes, I suppose Blanchard is now some sort of celebrity 'expert' on this issue, even though his research was done many years ago, and the context and landscape of this has (I would argue) changed significantly.

But it will difficult enough to do more research on AGP when we're not even really allowed to talk about it, and according to some people it doesn't even exist .

LGB Alliance video is now back up.

@CreepingDeath, I'm just about to read all your posts again, they're so good, astute and thought-provoking. Thanks to all the posters actually - this is a thread that really has me thinking.

Helen's body language when Blanchard was wanging on about porn and women accepting responsibility - several minutes of the hand across the mouth, the classic 'I don't agree, I want to say something, but I'm polite so I'll hold back for the moment' sign. I love her.
While I don't like what Blanchard said (or his sneery look when Helen challenged him), I feel like Graham did try to push back on the porn angle at least. I've also heard a lot of podcast hosts say it's hard to get the balance of pushing back on a guest when they're talking shite, but also knowing that person has given up their time to talk to you and that you don't want to be rude to a guest and deter others from coming on the show.

I've never liked Blanchard because of what has already been said. He was happy for women to have their spaces and language removed to support a man with a fetish
I'd like to see more research into fetish but I don't think it will happen. The idea that environment plays no part is ridiculous imo. I don't believe it is innate. Childhood trauma, being exposed to porn when young and society creates fetish. Look at China with the foot binding although that also helped to keep women in their place

And how does he know that porn hasn’t had an effect on the growing number of AGP transwomen? Has there been any research into it?

That interview with him was really weird. I think he was saying that all fetishes, not only AGP fetishes, are innate, in the way that homosexuality frequently is. Or at least, that a fetish can be triggered by the environment but if you don't have the fetish on this "innate" level already nothing will be triggered. And this belief of his is why he doesn't understand what women are saying about AGP and misogyny. He thinks the fetish doesn't require a cause, it's just there, devoid of any social context.

I don't believe this for a second. I think misogyny is the causal factor. I don't believe that the fact that so many fetishes, including AGP, are misogynistic in nature, is unrelated to the misogyny of society and to male sexual entitlement. A lot of fetishists are simply imagining scenarios where their entitlement is given free reign with no limits.

And I don't think that it's inevitable that men must be raised up to be entitled selfish misogynistic beasts who dehumanise women- even in our current society many men are not like that. I suspect that's where my perspective differs from Blanchard's and Arty Morty's. They think men are just like this so it's not fair to expect them to be better. Whereas I think women should do everything in their power to avoid men like that, and discard them as fast as possible if one slips through the forcefield.

Shit, I got MTF and FTM the wrong way around
in that comment. Excellent for my first post on Mumsnet, eh?

Helen looked a combo of upset, anxious, and sulky, which is exactly how I’d have been after that discussion. Blanchard’s assertion that MTF’s ‘wanting to be a gay male’ is less interesting and involved as FTM’s wish to be lesbian also ground my gears. Man just doesn’t think wome’s sexuality ia all that interesting, and puts a lot of blame at our door for the sexuality of men.

And how does he know that porn hasn’t had an effect on the growing number of AGP transwomen? Has there been any research into it? I thought he was quite dismissive about it. And I was a bit disappointed in Arty