DD has just called me a bloody T*RF!

It sounds as if the lines of communication are open, which is great. Idk if she’s always been a lesbian. However, if she wants to date a transwoman, the reality is that she could become pregnant. I know your dd is now a young adult, but idk if she’s thought of this.

Ask her about her feminism, what she means by intersectionality, etc. Seriously, ask her about it, get into a deep conversation but don't contradict her, get as much info out of her as you - tell her you're educating yourself if you must, but keep asking questions. If the absence of logic hasn't made itself obvious by the end of it, the tackle it again in a few days, "I was thinking about our conversation, and I don't really understand this bit....". Just keep talking.

@SauvignonBlanche as she's a Rugby player, you might want her to take a look at World Rugby's guidelines on transgender players and how they were developed. Also Ross Tucker (@scienceofsport on twitter) is good at discussing the issues around trans inclusion in sport.

Oops! My apologies, @SauvignonBlanche

I shall pop off and will stop adding to the derail!

[quote SillyStrings423]@MrsMadderRose
"(Gender-critical does not mean "critical of transgender people" BTW)"
It effectively does. At this point "gender ideology" is defined as trans people existing, and pretty much nothing else.
And I know you intend to deny this. That's what makes it an euphemism.[/quote]
No. Really. It doesn't.

It only effectively means anything other than dismissive of the gender stereotypes that restrict the freedom of women and strengthen the grip of any patriarchal society if you close your eys, stick your fingers in your wears and bellow "NAH NAH NEE NAH NAH" so you don't have to hear gender criticial women trying to engage in a discussion with you.

And I know you won't even bother to try and deny this as you will have your eyes crewed tight shut, your wears firmly blocked to protect you against any of life's realities.

You won't even know that there is a measured and logical discussion going on all around you!

TERF is a misogynistic slur used to shut down any discourse

And also a handy indicator of when it's time to turn to MN...

TERF is a misogynistic slur used to shut down any discourse

It’s scary how there’s no debate allowed, she just told me to educate myself on intersectional feminism but then left the room when I declined to say that JK was ‘wrong’.

About the term “intersectional” …. Ask her has she read Kimberlé Crenshaw’s article from around 1991, and what is her knowledge of the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas case which motivated Crenshaw’s work? And what does she make of some of the racism of trans activism ?

Ooops sorry Purgatory, I will and thanks for that very nice and gentle reminder :)

I mean there are a lot of things that don't exist "in nature", but that doesn't automatically make them a bad idea. Vaccines, houses, cooking, shoes, etc etc

Psst, please join the debate on the official debate thread. We'll leave this thread for advice for the OP.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4383563-For-the-Attention-of-Posters-in-the-bloody-terf-thread

There's no such thing as sex-segregated bathrooms in nature.

No, and I guess there weren't for a lot of human history. And before we had sex-segregated toilets, and even more importantly changing rooms, hospitals and prisons, women would have been more at risk in various situations. Rape and sexual harassment of women by men is not a social construct. Their legal status yes, but not the effect on women.

"Sexed spaces" are inherently a social construct. There's no such thing as sex-segregated bathrooms in nature.

Sex is not a social construct, but yes 'sexed spaces is'. What's your point here? Are you saying that we could construct differently? Of course we could but to consider other options we'd need to look at the effects of sexed spaces - which is what women are asking for.

Incidentally if someone had though things through and come to a different conclusion than mine (and most people's), I would really like it (genuinely) if they could tell us what the actual definition of woman is in their world and why they think we need spaces segregated according to gender. Really simple question. But consistent refusal to answer them.

I don't think there's any need to argue with her. She's a young lesbian. If you are right, she'll be harassed by trans women and feel unsafe and edged out of her community and become gender critical, too. If not, eventually you can agree that she has a point. Until then, you can just agree to differ, both stay open minded, and stick to things you agree on and keep a good relationship going.

My DD called me a T*RF for a while, but we just kept talking, asking the old Socratic questions, and focusing on the real issues, like men in women's sport, and men in women's prisons. She plays rugby, and she currently lives with a parent and step-parent who both work in criminal justice, so she 'gets' these arguments.

She doesn't call me a T*RF anymore.

It’s about breaking consent.

In what way do you think that the OP has disappointed her daughter?

I guess she’s really disappointed in you and I would be too.

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]Hello!

I made a debate thread! Come, pull up a chair there! Grab a microphone!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4383563-For-the-Attention-of-Posters-in-the-bloody-terf-thread[/quote]
Thank you - you caught me just before a v-e-r-y long post!

@SillyStrings423, please do come over, you won't want to hear this but I think your perspective is not that far from the GC one really! My post on the other thread explains why. I'd love to know what you think.

All the aliens i know reproduce via parthenogenesis. Would you mind please explaining the social categories of man and woman to them, please, as they have no notion of social roles signed to sex at all (they do understand sex, but no sentient beings on their planet are dimorphic, only dumb beasts).