Great. Son now says he’s trans.

I assume OP means gender in the conventional feminist sense of the word. The separation of sex and gender is a useful concept within feminism. It's a useful way to talk about the boundaries between our sexed bodies and the sexist expectations and roles that are imposed upon us, that change across time and culture.

It's when people started talking about gender as an internal essence that everything went wrong. I refuse to surrender the word, though, and still use it to talk about external social pressures/norms that enforce male dominance and female submission. Gender is bollocks because it's how sexist ideas are enforced and it hurts everyone, especially women and girls, but it's not bullshit as an idea unless you think that masculine and feminine are the same thing as male and female or somehow don't believe that we live in a society where there are ideas about what is masculine or feminine.

It's clear to me that when OP said she'd been clear about her views on gender, she meant her views about the relationship between what our society considers masculine/feminine and the material reality of being male/female.

Good luck to all those thinking they won’t have that conversation. Because it certainly was not me who brought it up in my house. But a teenager with a rapidly increasing number of friends all declaring themselves trans and several asking for volunteers to receive their binder deliveries.

The pronoun conversation is tricky because it can close off further conversations quickly.

OP and other posters going through this, you have my sympathies.

Big glass of gin for you from me.

Find me a mother who wouldnt feel whaaaat at this news.
If my son ssid this to be id say ok. I wouldnt pander to it any more than that though because i never forced any stereotypes on him

John. You are a boy. Jane you are a girl. You might be gay, that's fine.

You cannot change sex or species.

Get on with life.

I have discussions with my children about gender crap because they were mentioned gender...it's as simple as that. Someone mentioned before about the internet being the biggest grooming device and it is. So why would we not talk about and diminish the shit they are hearing or going to hear?

I know which one my child is.

I'm not sure why posters think parents are doing something wrong to have had discussions. DS1 was 9 when he started questioning his gender. He had picked up the message from school that you could have a boys body and a girls brain and vice versa. To the extent that he believed quite literally it was as likely you were a boy or girl regardless of your body and how bizarre that we made assumptions at birth.

My child is younger than your son OP so it's a bit easier but it so makes me anxious because I know how quickly school would affirm and how it could escalate.

We talked about what being a girl would be like. Things like clothing were easily addressed, he could wear leggings and nail polish if he liked. Once a teacher asked to speak to me about his nail polish and was very earnestly digging around. I laughed it off and just said oh he forgot to remove it for school as i if I was missing her point.

I neither affirmed nor disagreed with his gender question and it seems to have gone away. I carefully avoid correcting or disagreeing because he likes to take a different stand so disagreeing is likely to make him more drawn to the idea. One of his friends has since changed their name/gender and we use the correct pronouns out of respect. DS said it was sad that she felt there was something wrong with being a girl.

DS seems to have stopped questioning and is critical of many gender stereotypes. I am waiting to see if it comes up again. Its quite a bit thing at his secondary school - high number of trans/non binary etc.

@BloodinGutters

Yes, your impression is probably correct but why does that even need talking about? Let them be. If a boy wants to play with Barbie or a girl play rugby, then just let them.

It doesn't need talking about. The words "gender ideology" never need to be mentioned and I believe, in this climate, does more harm than good.

I can say, hand on heart, that if a 13 year old came to me-as in the OP- and told me they were non-binary with demands of non-binary pronouns, I would totally ignore them.

Might they be unhappy? Maybe? But I would rather they were unhappy for a bit as a young teenager than be unhappy for the rest of their lives as an adult because I had encouraged them in something-probably a fad- which for many, can lead to mental health problems and a lifetime of misery.

There would be no doctor's appointments, no counselling, no getting on a treadmill which seems pretty difficult to get off and for what?

If they announced the same thing when they were over 18, I might have a different approach but at 13? 15? No. it is my job to discourage shit which they don't understand and which might only be exploited by others who won't care if my child's life is ruined by all this bollocks.

So, I might be wrong but gender, pro-nouns and all the rest of it is not up for discussion in my house with young teenagers who don't know their arse from their elbow.

I went through this with my DS. He was 15 when he told me he was trans, we went to GIDS, waiting list meant he was almost 17 by the time we got there.
I think we got in just before ‘acceptance above all’ became the absolute must.

Just before lockdown he had his final appointment with GIDS as he had turned 18. The next thing for him was to be referred to the adult service where he would be given medication, be referred to speech feminisation, etc.

I am one of the only people who are grateful that we had a lockdown, as it gave him time to really analyse what he wanted, and gave me time to talk to him about it. I asked him what it was that he wanted out of transition and gently told him that he would never be a woman, no matter how much surgery and hormones he had.

He is now a happy, gay 20 year old man having the time of his life at university and I certainly haven’t ‘lost him’, we have a great relationship and I’m so proud of him. Affirmation isn’t the only choice you have, as long as you can talk to your DS there is always hope to help him accept himself as he is, which is the best result there is.

15 year old boy, he's probably viewing some awful things. Gore, porn, whatever.
If he is honest with you about what he's watching you might find whatever it is needs to stop immediately; it's likely he's viewing illegal stuff too.
I can't give any more advice than that, but look out for sissy hypno, 4chan, dodgy discord servers (unmoderated chat, basically), telegram or other non-standard message apps, and use of a vpn (what does he need it for?)

Do they have autism?
Also I'd be asking if they was to start hormone treatment etc and become a 'woman' what does that look like in their eyes. Do they want to date men or women. Isit more they want to date men but unable to let's say be gay and happy and if so maybe therapy around sexualality could be helpful? I would be asking what makes them feel this way. Do they feel they are not 'manly' enough.

My closest friend is going through this. Makes me very sad. Being trans seems all the rage atm.

@ YearsSinceISawYou I was more upset that she felt all people were homophobic. When I asked her who had told her she said she would be told at school. DH and I sat down with her and spent a while discussing that yes there are homophobes, transphobes, racists in the world but it isn't everyone. I asked her when I or her dad gave her that impression and she said we didn't but others said we might be covering up. She's very young in many respects but it's so hard to guide her without wondering if you're getting it right. The school in fairness were great when I eventually got in touch about a few things. They were shocked at the intensity as well and ended up having to give a lesson on LGBT issues because they had had a lot of arguments and upset,

@eeyore228

Who are these people in the school? How dare they mess about with the minds of children in this way.
What do the other parents think?

It's very hard. I do think that there's so much pressure on kids to ‘experiment’. DD started secondary school last September. She was just 11. In under a year she has told me if you don't experiment it means your are homophobic, transphobic. I under a year she has declared she is gay, then bisexual, then non-binary and now pansexual. She has now told me she's also trans. Now if DD feels that way I will be there, it doesn't change who she is. But I worry that she has experienced all of these feelings with such intensity but don't want her to think I wouldn't support her. She told me she's trans yet an hour later is asking me for make up a dress for a party. When I questioned what made her feel like this she can't tell me. She has 6 close friends who have all come out in a variety of ways. It's a really difficult thing to approach because you want to support your children but at the same time I don't want her to make any huge decisions that are hard to take back.

Well, I might be a dinosaur but I don't discuss "gender" with my DC. They are the sex they were born and, unlike the OP, I am "not clear about my opinion about gender" because I will not be a party to that dangerous shite entering my house.

There is no opinion on what sex they are because their sex is a fact. and I don't invite them to discuss what pro-nouns or whether they are binary or non binary.

It may crawl in some other way, through the internet but there will be no fluffy chats about it, when they are children or teenagers with raging hormones because I won't be encouraging dangerous shit that will leave them fucked up for ever more.

In most cases, this crap will go away if it doesn't find fertile ground to take root in.

I hope you get it sorted out OP but my advice, which you probably won't take and others will throw derision on, is to tell them to stop being so bloody melodramatic!

Some people may feel they are trapped in the wrong body but most teenagers are jumping on a band waggon, aided and abetted by those who should know better.

I hope this hasn't insulted anyone but I do feel that an atmosphere abounds in which children are encouraged to think about their "gender" in a way they just wouldn't do if they weren't encouraged.

Visiting secondaries recently has meant i’ve found out some very fucked up policies that I know parents have zero idea of (posted earlier in the week, but have nc-although going for distillers songs currently so easy to trace). Even when primary agrees on the importance of following the d of e guidance it turns out in practice they really don’t grasp how to address gender identity without breaching the guidance.

So you should check. While lots of the social contagion comes from internet and peers, it is possibly the first social contagion that is also promoted by schools, either intentionally or negligently. And that does unthinkable harm. So check through your kids school policies and pshe plan and if they are in stonewall diversity champions scheme and if they use other outside organisations that aren’t working together compliant and if they have lgbt+ clubs that are basically a front for stonewalling the kids.

If there’s any chance it’s school this is coming from then take action. Use safe school alliance and transgender trend resources to complain. Follow it up formally if you have to. And if you’re completely sure it’s not school get them on board supporting him to dismantle ideas based on harmful stereotypes.

You always pop up here with your veiled threats and cheap insults. Don't you have anything useful to add?

I remember your posts DeJaDont I've worked with teenagers for decades and they all make mistakes. Some of them catastrophic. We always hope that they learn - and sometimes they do. And sometimes - especially with sexual offences - their learning includes massive negative consequences for their future lives.
This is the first time that I am aware of, that the education system has allowed (mainly) adult males involved in sexual politics to directly access children in schools and sell their personal versions of a complex ideology to them. If you add to that the tsunami of porn and age inappropriate material children are able to access online, it's no wonder we have children of all ages stressing about whether they might be the wrong sex - and certain adults gleefully encouraging them.

I'm so sorry about what happened to your son.