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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

EDI training at work - is this correct?

34 replies

Bananasaur · 22/10/2021 19:01

The following statement appeared in some recent training: 'Men and women are protected from discrimination on the basis of their sex. This includes those who have, are, or will be undergoing gender reassignment.'

I'm confused. Is the implication that someone who has had gender reassignment is entitled to the protections of their 'new' sex? I.e. gender reassignment is sex reassignment? Is this the meaning in law?

Sex and gender reassignment are listed separately elsewhere with all the other protected characteristics. However, the training also goes into gender identity and pronouns at length, and gets more confusing. Terms are not defined and it states we are assigned a sex and gender at birth based on physical characteristics. It includes intersex people under the trans umbrella and uses sex, gender, gender identity etc interchangeably. It also talks about gender aligning with sex - how can two different things be aligned? Isn't that like trying to get my religion (atheist) to align with my shoe size (4)?

I've done a lot of reading around this previously and am really trying to understand it fully but this seems to have been written by someone with a shakier grasp than me.

I work in science.

I am in the process of sticking my head above the parapet for that if nothing else. Senior leadership, HR etc are all very much of the 'it's controversial... be kind' mindset. Any suggestions on an approach that is most likely to garner results would be gratefully received.

We have a huge gender pay gap.

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NewlyGranny · 22/10/2021 19:40

How do you identify as intersex when that's a collection of genetic anomalies? It's like identifying as a haemophiliac, surely?

NewlyGranny · 22/10/2021 19:37

Wow, bananasaur, where would you start?

I'd begin by asking: Who wrote this? Who edited it? Who approved it? Were all of them unpaid interns?

Seriously, I think questions are the way to go. Lots of them. Puzzled, innocent face as you struggle to grapple with this vital issue because you want to get it right.

Whoever wrote it, their grasp is shaky and clarity has eluded them.

Bananasaur · 22/10/2021 19:34

I just did the training quiz on whether it's always (verbatim) best to ask someone's gender identity, answered 'No' as they said not to in interviews, and failed.

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Bananasaur · 22/10/2021 19:24

Thank you! I copied some info from the policy doc from Sex Matters on pronouns as this is next on my company's list... I previously anonymously raised the issue of unconscious bias and the wider implications of unthinkingly supporting gender ideology etc but had no response so I guess I have to out myself as a troublemaker now.

Latest is that it will be optional but 'strongly encouraged'. I had suggested balanced comms for those who weren't fully appraised of the reasoning for and against...

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/10/2021 19:21

I love all these threads appearing on here as women start challenging all the nonsense that's being written in the name of "diversity". Hope you get information that helps Bananasaur

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 22/10/2021 19:17

Sex Matters on pronouns: sex-matters.org/posts/updates/pronouns/

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 22/10/2021 19:16

You might want to peek in this thread while you're waiting for an informed response: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4381244-Any-other-scientists-feel-like-you-are-in-an-alternate-reality

A related piece you might find helpful:

sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/the-workplace/

Bananasaur · 22/10/2021 19:15

It also says NEVER to assume someone's gender and ALWAYS ask them how THEY define their gender and what pronouns to use (caps verbatim), but never to ask about gender in an interview. And it's harmful to use binary pronouns to refer to someone non-binary and can amount to harassment but you are legally not allowed to share whether someone is trans without consent. This may just be poorly written.

Also states that someone who has transitioned may no longer identify as transgender. Does that mean they're cis..? Our internal guidance says people are one or the other.

And people can identify as intersex.

I don't know what to take from this.

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