When you agree with Vladimir Putin....

Am I right in thinking Glenn Greenwald has changed a lot on this? I thought he was anti-JKR when she spoke out?

A lot of people transition in Iran because homosexuality is illegal.

Domestic violence is not criminal in Russia unless it causes "substantial bodily harm" (such as broken bones or a concussion) or happens more than once a year.

I recall Charlotte Clyner praising Iran for its provision of transitional surgery for people, even though it's a country where gay men are put to death.

If Putin had come out in favour of gender ideology, I don't doubt there would be trans activists praising him for his enlightened attitude to gender today.

twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1403339988167794691?t=JakrSgLnbQbi2QyCn6VR_A&s=19

Not that TRAs are always that on the ball. I had one tell me 'adult human female' is a tautology the other day.

Did they explain their reasoning?

I think he just didn't know the difference between a tautology and a definition. He said 'woman' means 'female', and he might have realised he'd shot himself in the foot because my comments suddenly stopped appearing on his YouTube video...

If Westboro Baptist Church members told me today is Friday, I would agree with them that it is.

More than that, Fred Phelps fought some important civil rights cases in his legal career. He did more than the majority of people at the time to fight the evil of racial segregation laws. I'd hope nobody thinks that because of his homophobic activity, that means he was in the wrong about the need to end Jim Crow.

Facts remain facts. Irrespective of the biases of the person who utters them.

I agree. The message - not the messenger - is what counts.

Thanks, hoodathunkit.

Because deliberately disagreeing with someone.just because you don't approve of other things they say or do just makes you look.like an idiot. Some TRAs would rather make themselves look ridiculous rather than acknowledge that things don't stop being true just because you dislike who said it.

I dont like Donald trump but I'm.not gon a claim.the sky is yellow just to avoid being seen to agree with him.

also this film is very interesting in terms of the interplay between the concept of the authentic self as portrayed by cults and some schools of psychotherapy and the manipulation of the masses re social engineering (concepts highly relevant to the evolution of the TRA movemment)

@RedDogsBeg

This film is worthy of repeated viewing and very informative

Sounds interesting hoodathunkit, I'll take a look.

People are absoutely right here saying 'facts are facts' no matter who utters them, and examples from science are good ones.

Another way of looking at it is as an extreme version of the whole Piers Morgan argument -- I forget which particular activist it was that he took issue with, but when the initial reaction was akin to, 'Piers Morgan disagrees with this person, surely you don't want to be on the same side as Piers Morgan', others then pointed out that, actually, you could look at it like this: when someone is so extreme that even Piers Morgan calls them out, surely something is amiss.

i.e. in this case -- TRAs, if your pro-authoritarian, anti-autonomy, sexist and homophobic ideology has reached the point where even Vladmir Putin thinks it is a bad idea, it's really time to start re-examining your life choices.

More people like JK Rowling. And yes more traditionally left wing people be that politicians or celebrities to start to remove this idea that it's a hard conservative line to take.

People have seen what happened to JKR and are either too craven and cowardly to stand up for her or they truly believe in and voice the TRA line, if they came along now and said they never really believed in it that would be shameful and a volte face of epic proportions and frankly I don't think I'd believe them I would assume they are only doing it because the ship was sinking and they don't want to go down with it.

Russia's policy re the LGBT issue in recent times has been to bankroll its own LGBT networks as well as bankrolling its own anti-LGBT networks and to then set them against one another.

Adam Curtis has reported on this in his various documentaries.

It is no surprise that Putin is stating that transing kids is a crime against humanity.

The extremely clever strategy has been to influence the origins of the TRA movment, to cultivate it up to the point when it becomes a ridiculous parody of itself, where children are experimented on and women are at risk of abuse, and to then point the finger and sneer from an apparent moral high ground.

It would be extremely surprising if Putin was saying anything else really.

Peter Pomerantsev's books and youtube talks are an interesting and accessible foundation for further research on this issue.

Putin is not right wing, Putin is Putin wing .Who would you like to see from the Left speak out, who do you think is true Left Wing?

I just mean Putin saying that only reinforces the idea that challenging gender ideology is "transphobic" because someone as openly homophobic as Putin is obviously going to "gender critical", because they tie it all up as the same thing.

I over-simplified it by mentions political wings but essentially what we need are some respected, level headed people calling it out to make people pause and think oh well if they think that. More people like JK Rowling. And yes more traditionally left wing people be that politicians or celebrities to start to remove this idea that it's a hard conservative line to take.

*tiny

The fact that Putin is annoyed pleases me a Toby bit I’ve got to admit (even though I agree with him).

Anyone who suggests that if I agree with a person on one issue, it means I support everything else they say and do is an idiot.

It's typical of a movement that believes that a person's thoughts determine their physical reality to fail understand that if I agree with Putin on one issue, it doesn't mean I am Putin. I'm still me, because my thoughts don't determine my material reality.

Well this is where this “only agree with people you agree 100%” gets us, isn’t it?

I doubt many here agree with Putin’s political or even moral beliefs. But you’d be foolish to deny the earth orbits the sun simply because it was said by someone who is abhorrent to you.

What if some right wing bogey person pointed out the Earth is not flat? Do left wingers have to switch to being flat earthers to stay ideologically pure?

I’m sure there’s plenty of Tories urging people to vaccine against covid, to vaccinate their kids against measles etc. Do we admit we agree with common sense or do we have to chant anti-vax statements?

Sometimes people we don’t like, trust or respect will make statements we will agree with. The Conservatives under Cameron made same sex marriage legal. Are all married gay and lesbians in the pocket of shady right wingers? Does every left winger have to be anti-same sex marriage now?

I don’t really know much about Russia and what I do know tends to be about harmful policies that hurt women and LGBT people. I can’t support that, obviously. But are there other things I may agree with? Are there Russian doctors treating cancer patients? Are children educated?

There may be some agreement on things and some disagreement. Saying kids can’t change sex doesn’t mean I support policies that harm women.

I was waiting for this. Interesting it has come after the first female four star general announcement.

There are fascinating dynamics at play here, particularly now it has become clear this ideology has now been accepted by the Pentagon.

To be blunt, it looks to the rest of the world as though the US military has lost its mind, and the US itself is having some sort of collective breakdown.

It is going to be interesting to see what the geopolitical fallout of this is.

The Right-wing is on a win-win with this. They can see gender ideology is devastating the middle-class centrist/liberal/left and actually making the centrist/liberal/left classes be the ones supporting the sort of regressive sexist stereotyping and conversion-therapy homophobia that used to be associated with the conservative and religious Right. And all a Trump or whatever has to do is say something mildly critical and the centrist/liberal/left double down and do it all the more. The Right must think all its Christmases have come at once.

Not that TRAs are always that on the ball. I had one tell me 'adult human female' is a tautology the other day.

Did they explain their reasoning?

Bloody hell! My worlds turned upside down.