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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Harrop MPTS Hearing

986 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/10/2021 16:18

I thought this may be of interest:

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-adrian-harrop-nov-21

The tribunal will inquire into the allegation that from 10 May 2018 to 23 November 2019, Dr Harrop inappropriately used his Twitter account to post tweets that were offensive and/or insulting and/or inappropriate in nature and some of which were intended to intimidate.

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Motorina · 17/11/2021 12:30

This is true. As an example, health care professionals have a duty to report criminal matters to the regulator at the point they're charged. It's viewed very seriously if they don't - it's central to their integrity.

I have seen people successfully argue that they had no idea that that was required, and end up suspended for failing to fulfil their duty through ignorance, rather than erased for deliberately hiding information from their regulator.

It's not a complete 'get out of jail' pass, though.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 17/11/2021 12:27

@Cwenthryth

So AH is arguing that he is ignorant? As if that’s an excuse rather than just yet another failing as a professional?
Better to be ignorant of a rule than knowingly to breach it, though. And very few doctors could actually tell you chapter and verse of Good Medical Practice - the GMC guidance on behaviour - especially the more esoteric bits like social media policy. Even though ‘ignorance is no defence’ in the eyes of the Law, or GMC, the reality is that ignorance of a rule is sometimes accepted as a mitigating factor, where the ignorance is held to be genuine and reasonable.

I’m not arguing in favour of AH: just trying to place his arguments in the context of ‘the doctor on the Clapham omnibus’.

ItsLittoralViolins · 17/11/2021 12:22

His defence is that he remained ignorant even after two warnings and supervision, and continued to send (admitted) inappropriate tweets while being visibly a medical doctor?

Goodness me.

Motorina · 17/11/2021 12:22

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow really hard sell. There's a clear duty to know the standards. Panellists generally take a dim view of registrants who don't. Particularly when they've had them pointed out to them a couple of times already.

Plus, actually, if you need a written standard to tell you "Don't threaten people online", then what does that say about your moral compass?

Cwenthryth · 17/11/2021 12:18

So AH is arguing that he is ignorant? As if that’s an excuse rather than just yet another failing as a professional?

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 17/11/2021 12:17

@InvisibleDragon

So his defence is that he had no idea about the policy on social media conduct ... Despite being given 2 written warnings about his social media conduct ... (Because he thought it was part of a wider anti-trans conspiracy??)

The mind boggles

It’s a good defence on paper though- if the panel buy it - because the sanctions for not knowing the details of GMC guidelines are likely to be less then the sanctions for knowingly breaching them. But I suspect that @Motorina will tell us that it’s a defence that’s a hard sell.
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 17/11/2021 12:13

@Cwenthryth

Surely any public comment about someone else’s health/mental health - like calling someone MH-related slurs etc - is offensive objectively whoever does it, but becomes more inappropriate when done by a practicing doctor who has privileges and responsibilities around diagnosis? The tribunal tweets seemed to suggest that “offensive” would be a worse thing than “inappropriate” but surely that’s not the case in every instance.
The GMC are clear that, if you identify yourself as a doctor on SM, you are acting as a doctor. However, we use so many metaphors about the body and medicine in normal speech that this creates grey areas. If I tell someone on Twitter to go and boil their head, I’m clearly not giving them literal medical advice to do so.

In AH’s case, I expect he will argue that tweets like the ‘morning medication’ one as general metaphors that shouldn’t be given additional weight, just because he’s a doctor. If it were an isolated tweet, I think that would actually be a reasonable argument, which is why it’s so important that the GMC presents the tweets as a pattern of behaviour.

Artichokeleaves · 17/11/2021 12:11

We're seeing a whole lot of the 'I have a personal reality and it's superior to yours so only mine exists and you saying anything outside it renders you a nonperson' hit the reality of the legal system.

I don't think alternative facts and personal realities can come to work. Certainly not in public facing, responsible jobs.

Personwithrage · 17/11/2021 12:04

There's a thinking point here for those who dismiss anything someone says, regardless of topic, because they have once said something at odds with your pov.

You can't go through life believing other people's thoughts, feelings and conversations are irrelevant because they don't believe the same things as you, and that no one will ever give anything they ever say any merit as a result.

Am thinking of JKR and KS here as much as anyone.

InvisibleDragon · 17/11/2021 11:57

So his defence is that he had no idea about the policy on social media conduct ... Despite being given 2 written warnings about his social media conduct ... (Because he thought it was part of a wider anti-trans conspiracy??)

The mind boggles

crosshatching · 17/11/2021 11:54

Hugely grateful to all those posters so generous with their expertise on this thread. Thank you, I was interested in this but wouldn't have been able to follow it effectively.

Motorina · 17/11/2021 11:50

If anyone wants to read them, the GMC's standards, including on social media, are at: www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guidance/ethical-guidance-for-doctors#good-medical-practice

The main guidance "Good Medical Practice" includes these standards:

11 You must be familiar with guidelines and developments that affect your work.

12 You must keep up to date with, and follow, the law, our guidance and other regulations relevant to your work.

PronounssheRa · 17/11/2021 11:48

Ishe going for “I didn’t know any of this”

Appears so, but his 2 previous written warnings already marked his cards, but Harrop chose to ignore those.

mammajustkilledagnat · 17/11/2021 11:46

*wouldn't

mammajustkilledagnat · 17/11/2021 11:46

I would let him change a lightbulb at this point, let alone provide any level of care to another human being. He's coming across as completely incompetent - which is not the best defense.

Sophoclesthefox · 17/11/2021 11:43

Is he going for “I didn’t know any of this” because, implausible and boggling as it is that he didn’t know, it’s something that could be fixed? So his defence will be- now he’s had his card marked, he will read up on all of the guidelines and requirements, have a road to Damascus moment about how he should be adhering to them, promises that he will, then he’s off on his merry way?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/11/2021 11:39

which begs the question of what other vital policies and/or elements of professional development and best medical practice he is also unaware of...

Terfasaurus · 17/11/2021 11:36

This is astonishing.

SM use for Dr’s published & came into effect in April 2013. Brought to AH attention in May 2018. Did you read? No. Other policies discussed. SM & best practice guidance. BMC for Med students. Code of Ethics. AH said not aware.

22.05.18 meeting with Prof Kumar. SM policy discussed. July 2018. 1st formal meeting. Complaint. GMC did you believe was part of a wider transphobic network? AH - Yes. GMC - did you think any merit? No. GMC Was you aware of how the public would perceive you? No. Thought vexatious

RoyalCorgi · 17/11/2021 11:15

If that's the case, ignorance is no excuse.

It's certainly not an excuse in a court of law, so I assume the same applies here. In any case, you really don't need to have read your professional guidelines in depth to be able to figure out that doctors shouldn't be abusing people, threatening them, intimidating them or proffering fake diagnoses. If you haven't got the intellectual or moral capacity to grasp that, you probably shouldn't be a doctor in the first place.

Motorina · 17/11/2021 10:58

I would be astonished if the doctors standards don't have something along the lines of "You must keep up to date with the requiremetns of your profession". In other words there's a positive duty to know the standards and follow them.

I don't konw for sure (it's not my profession) but they would be out of kilter with the other professions if they don't have that.

If that's the case, ignorance is no excuse.

Artichokeleaves · 17/11/2021 10:51

How exactly does that fit with Monday when he said despite the verbal reminding and explaining of his duties ordered in response to complaints, followed up by two written warnings when he still did not cease and desist, that he was using his platform for good?

Is he really going to go for lack of competency to understand policy, explanations and warnings, or basic common sense and professional standards?

PronounssheRa · 17/11/2021 10:46

Didn’t read SM policy

Even after his 2 written warnings, really?

Terfasaurus · 17/11/2021 10:43

There’s been a technical hitch so tribunal tweets aren’t there.

This wonderful lady is doing a great job instead.

twitter.com/selfcommit2othe/status/1460918768230711298?s=21

AH sworn in. Confirmed statements. Now being asked GMC about when active on Twitter. Became active 2018/2018. Joined trans debate March/April 2018.

Lengthy debate on AH understanding of social media use. Saying he didn’t understand until recently. Policy states Dr’s must not change on SM from that in person. Didn’t read SM policy. Understands now that he should have been aware. ‘Didn’t enter my head’ how it could affect GMC.

nettie434 · 17/11/2021 10:25

But he wasn't above dishing out similar advice to someone more junior than him

I hadn't seen those tweets, FannyCann. I see one person has made a very pithy comment to his advice Grin

Thanks for all the background information, Motorina. The tribunal tweeters are doing a great job too.

FindTheTruth · 17/11/2021 10:04

@Motorina thank you for all your expertise on this x