Margaret Atwood

If I were in Atwood's position, I might note that one side of the debate is calling me an "ugly old white bitch" and telling me to suck their dick, while the other is saying things like "I'm really disappointed by Atwood's attitude." That might give something of a clue to which side is the reasonable one.

It's very strange indeed that she hasn't done that.

In some ways, if Atwood sees that she's pissed off everyone, it might release her from having to please anyone, and give her space to look more into the subject and look into what JKR/Maya are actually saying. I really hope she does so.

I had some respect for anyone genuinely exploring the "middle ground" as Helen pp put it (I don't really think it's the actual middle ground, but that's beside the point) but this is weird, desperate tactics - real "do it to julia". If MA really was interested in exploring the ideas or debate in the videos surely she could add to them, present her own viewpoint instead of firing out links to indicate she's still on the "right side"?

Jkr herself did that - clearly did lots of reading up before articulating her view. Maya's witness statement was perfectly reasonable and summed up many people's beliefs (it should be linked to more often as a starting point, imo). MA had just waded in, no attempt to address any of the actual points, just pointing at the ones other people pretend they have said.
Just as happens on here repeatedly. Unable to engage with the points raised so make up their own and pretend that's what the argument is about.

many of us were ready to welcome her into the fold with open arms, she's now antagonised us too.

Atwood was never going to come to the GC community. She was always going to stay within her own and that is where, ultimately, she can do the most good.

Most of us are not her community, we don't overlap with her at all. To a large extent this is never about the GC 'community', it's for seeds to to be planted into other communities where there is no understanding of the harms of gender ideology.

None of this is about those of us who understand the issues, it's about reaching the people who don't know about them and don't understand them. There's nothing to be done to shift the true believers which is why I'm interested in the research Gottman has done about long cons/fraud and the overlaps with disinformation (quoted upthread) and what can be learned from that about how to support people who are in communities where disinformation is rampant.

She has this long distinguished career and at the age of 80 she's basically just trashed her own reputation by throwing other women under the bus. Why-oh-why would you do that?

Same here Countess - I expected her to back down and I posted about giving her room to manoeuvre, but she must know how Twitter works and trying trying to send them after JKR and Maya to rescue her own arse is such a cravenly shit thing to do.

Also, she has now got herself into a situation where she is entirely friendless. The TRAs hate her because of the very mild suggestion that feminists might have a point. They will never ever stop hating her. And now she has told the feminists that we are all terrible people. So although many of us were ready to welcome her into the fold with open arms, she's now antagonised us too. So who's left?

Same here Countess - I expected her to back down and I posted about giving her room to manoeuvre, but she must know how Twitter works and trying trying to send them after JKR and Maya to rescue her own arse is such a cravenly shit thing to do.

It’s a positive choice to join in the stone throwing though.
If she had stepped back or only tweeted pro trans banalities after the attacks on her started I would have sympathised but she is actively attacking other women.

It's to be expected though. Firstly she won't be reading everything we read, she won't know about a lot of the issues. She's in a culture with the strongest pressure to not step out of line.

She's basically living in a 1984 version of Gilead and acting appropriately as an oppressed person.

To be a dissident in that situation is hard.

"I'm not the witch! Try Goody Maya next door!"

You know what, I'm not even surprised or disappointed, just tired. What a dick move Margaret.

Even reading the damn book made me think- imagine writing it and knowing less 40 years later

I'm worried for her tbh. I hope she has good people around her in real life. She should probably just leave twitter for a little while and regroup. I hope she has someone around who can give her that advice.

She's in academia in Canada-Land. Unfortunately, she's probably going to get the same treatment from almost all the people she knows in real life as well. Best hope would be if she has a way of spending time with some family relatives who are "not into" the trans controversy either way.

Pity she can't come to the UK.

Vice, your mistake there is looking for logic. This movement only works if you studiously avoid reasoned, logical thinking.

This.

Yes, I do worry about Maya, too. Of course.

Have I accidentally wandered into some sort of weird nightmare ? The woman who wrote The Handmaids Tale has endorsed a book by a person who tweeted “enjoy your erasure” in response to women’s concerns about being able to access single sex spaces ??

What the fuck ??

I didn't say I was only and exclusively worried about Atwood? I hadnt even seen the post about Maya when I posted. But can we just take it as read that I'm scared for any woman targeted by this mob, whether or not their name comes up in this conversation.

She lasted longer than I thought. I put my money on a u-turn within 12 hours.

However, I just expected her to make a grovelling apology and a promise to educate herself further. This is gross! Her and the ghouls off Twitter deserve each other.

Cis people lack trans people's lived experienced with societal transphobia.

But that’s because they’re not trans, so how could they experience transphobia?

In the same way that transwomen lack women’s life experience because they’re not women.

So disappointed by her.

Nobody said trans and cis women are "identically the same". Just that they're both women.

In what way are 'cis' women (and the majority of women with no gender identity) and trans women more similar to each other than natal women and men? If there is no significant degree of similarity, what is the purpose of the word woman?

Why you not worried about maya.

She doesn’t have Atwood wealth. To sit at home tweeting

Maya lost her job

Being an older person doesn’t make you a better person

She choose to retweet a YouTube video about maya and JKR

No one made her