Queering of Motherhood. <warning>

Please, please, stop with the CIS!!!!!!
I don't understand Howardnoir- at all; perhaps they could 'educate' themselves?

But I would not expect you to represent what is being said honestly, because it's not what you do.

Now, let's just overlook you not knowing the difference between transmen and transwomen. You claim that we shouldn't assume all... The basic rule of safeguarding is to assume the worst, until it can be ruled out. What possible motivation can someone who cannot give birth, or breastfeed have for joining a miscarriage/antenatal/breastfeeding group? I'm definitely in favour of assuming the worst.

suggests the wife was just a body to be used and then something to be discarded after the birth

That’s the inevitable result of referring to “birthing bodies”, isn’t it?

Such a disturbing read.

This quote though:
“When they pulled my daughter free of my wife’s body, I was the first one to hold her. I took her back to the hospital room and did what any mom would do -- I put her on my bare chest and let her find my breast.”

They took a newly born baby straight from it’s mother and tried to get it to latch on? So validation and affirmation (and anything else they disgustingly got from it), is so much more important than that babies first experience of the world. Purposely removing a terrified, traumatised baby from the only safety it instinctively knows for their own benefit is frankly abusive. From the cold way in which they talked about the baby being ‘pulled free of my wife’s body’, suggests the wife was just a body to be used and then something to be discarded after the birth.

This was horrific. It's bottom of the barrel stuff but by god do we need to know what the top of the barrel covers up when it's getting smuggled into general society.

I just read the article.
This is just so fucked up and sick, I don’t even have the words for it. Esspecially the silicone baby part is really, really disturbing.

I am sure that MNHQ will be inundated with reports from the normal suspects. I do hope they allow this to stand so that women can see how the extreme aspects of this ideology that go completely uncommented on by all the organisations, pose a direct threat to women and children.
It's long overdue for trans advocates to start challenging the extreme fetishes / behaviours that threaten the safety of women and children

There's no shame in it - everyone recognises that political movements get appropriated by the unacceptable. What matters is that lines of acceptability are drawn and that safeguarding - especially babies and children - is everyone's priority.

Today 12:25HowardNoir
It's very silly to assume all trans men are autogynephiles.

All throughout history men have taken the experience of birth and nurturing away from us. This is just the modern day iteration.

I have no words for the disgust I feel for these men.

WTF is that silicone 'baby'

Yes it doesn't make much sense to me either. Transmen are female born people who present as male. They do not fetishise their femaleness, far from it.

Also we know not all trans people are dangerous/disturbed, but you can't deny the existence of people who are very real and then accuse others of transphobia.

Omg 🤮🤮🤮🤮

The monitors will be all over this one.

Oh and as an aside, all language is always evolving. It’s what language does. But the imposition of new meanings and the forced erasure of existing meanings is not evolution. It’s authoritarian coercion. And it never leads to permanent change in language.

@HowardNoir I’ve read your post several times and have no idea what you are trying to say. For a start you’d need to clarify “trans men” (do you mean biological males who identify as women, or the “correct” usage of biological females who identify as men)?

It's very silly to assume all trans men are autogynephiles. If women could support each other better instead of tearing each other down we'd all be much more secure in our own identity and the transphobes would stop pretending trans people are mentally unwell or pose a threat to them.

Language used about women including trans women is still evolving and although articles like this highlight why cis women are left out or not specified when talking about women, they're doing more harm than good and aren't actually tackling the problem.

Bloody hell
As a mum and a midwife I can't really find suitable words to express the overwhelming disgust ...

I agree it's pretty horrific when you understand what the motivation is behind much of this. Unfortunately, even MN don't like us talking about AGP so this thread might get wiped.

It is the TRAs dirty little secret, they don't want the wider public to know about this, because they well know most people would be pretty horrified. Many women are being used as unsuspecting props in men's sexual fantasies. And if we complain, we are the hateful, bigoted ones .

There was also the case of the online support group for women who had suffered miscarriage and stillbirth, where a TW joined and wanted to 'act out' a miscarriage or something. When some women complained that it was offensive, they were kicked out of the group! Who are the women going along with this, thinking this is ok?!

Reading this has made me think of an angle I hadn't thought of before. The WHO recommends that babies/toddlers are breastfed to 2 and beyond. But even people who are very, very pro breastfeeding can be extremely squeamish about breastfeeding a child past 6-12 months. And once you do get into the realm of a toddler who is running about and speaking, it's totally taboo. We hear, 'if they can ask for it, they are too old,' or, really, really disturbingly, 'at that point the mother is just doing it for herself.'

There is actually a real and genuine idea in our culture that a mother breastfeeding her child, past the first few months, is getting some sort of elicit thrill out of it. So to have at this point where more western women are breastfeeding for longer than they have in generations. And trying to normalise that in the face of accusations that they are somehow abusing their child. To have these men actually get a sexual thrill from it and be lauded for it is a massive fucking slap in the face.

And unfortunately, some of the women I met in breastfeeding groups, who helped to normalise breastfeeding for longer to me. Are front and centre of championing these weirdos and the removal of feminine language from the whole maternity process. They really don't see how they are undermining their own efforts.

Yikes!