I'm in Scotland, I can't keep quiet any longer

LadyNotGivingaF · 2021-10-16T17:17:57+00:00

Just that really. I'm tired of the wronthink. I'm an immigrant woman from a former communist country. The reeducation and denial of truth do not sit right with me. I have a DC at a primary school in Scotland. It's astounding to me that parents know so little of the transgender guidance for schools. After informal chats with other parents, they agree with me but everyone is too polite/nice and no one wants to be "that parent", well I don't really understand this...this is our kids' education, we entrust our kids in the hands of these people. So little do they know about blockers, surgeries, and what that entails. If they call me names, so what? My great-grandad was sent to the Gulag, my grandparents and parents refused to toe the party line and faced the consequences. I will ask the head to meet after school break. No emails, no possibility of bureaucratic speak, no escaping this issue, I want her to look me in the eye and tell me what she thinks of this.

Original poster

LadyNotGivingaF · 21/11/2021 12:27

An update on this, not wanting to go into too many details as it's been a frustrating time.
We will be moving schools next year. I have spoken to the new headteacher and am happy to have found sane voices. I am not sacrificing my kid's education and wellbeing at the altar of gender.

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2319inprogress · 17/10/2021 10:49

Standing with you!
Also in Scotland & although I don't have children in school I find the attempts at indoctrination really frightening (& very fitting with our authoritarian government, they have not changed & still think they should raise our children. Named Person never went away)

Waitwhat23 · 17/10/2021 10:22

No problem Arabella, that link can't be posted enough imo!

ArabellaScott · 17/10/2021 10:18

Sorry, Waitwhat, I didn't see your post!

ArabellaScott · 17/10/2021 10:10

@Sleepdeprived42long

Forgive me for being confused/uninformed but what exactly is the issue here? I really feel out of touch with the gender/sex/trans issues but I see they come up often on MN and I would like to be better informed. I’m in Scotland and have two children in primary school which is why im interested.

This is a good thread that covers many of the issues:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Ask if you have specific questions, will try to help.

For children in schools, the ScotGov's new 'LGBTQ' guidelines may be the most pressing issue.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4321288-New-Supporting-transgender-young-people-in-schools-guidance-for-Scottish-schools

Waitwhat23 · 16/10/2021 23:28

@Sleepdeprived42long you might find this useful too -
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Original poster

LadyNotGivingaF · 16/10/2021 23:08

@nauticant

What is the difference between a trans boy and a gender non-conforming girl?

Putting aside gender dysphoria which in a real clinical sense is very rare, the difference is the degree of affirmation/indoctrination.

Where does the idea "girl brain in boy body" come from? - until about a year ago it was the orthodoxy and then suddenly it turned out no one had ever said/meant it:
lilymaynard.com/born-in-the-wrong-body-thats-not-what-we-meant/

Why do we separate the brain from the body when the brain is part of the body. - although this was debunked a very long time ago, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind%E2%80%93body_dualism, it came back into fashion in the past few years when some people in universities and related spaces decided that the Enlightenment had actually been a wrong turn.

OP, you sound great. Good luck.

Thanks for the list, it's hard to keep up because the goalpost keeps moving. I don't intend to go all-in, I want to ask questions, not force my opinions and perhaps have an honest discussion about my concerns.

I first started reading about this 5 years ago, I was very much on board but things have progressed very fast with no curiosity about the matter whatsoever.

Also, I am very uncomfortable about well-meaning adults telling gay and lesbian teens their sexual attraction is bigoted or transphobic. I draw a very hard line at that.

PS I do love British politeness but it comes at a great cost sometimes.

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Voice0fReason · 16/10/2021 22:46

I completely agree with you. I think if most people actually understood the detail of what is happening and the number of children who are going to pay the price, there would be a lot more backlash.

People support this because they naively believe that they are being nice.

nauticant · 16/10/2021 22:45

What is the difference between a trans boy and a gender non-conforming girl?

Putting aside gender dysphoria which in a real clinical sense is very rare, the difference is the degree of affirmation/indoctrination.

Where does the idea "girl brain in boy body" come from? - until about a year ago it was the orthodoxy and then suddenly it turned out no one had ever said/meant it:
lilymaynard.com/born-in-the-wrong-body-thats-not-what-we-meant/

Why do we separate the brain from the body when the brain is part of the body. - although this was debunked a very long time ago, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind%E2%80%93body_dualism, it came back into fashion in the past few years when some people in universities and related spaces decided that the Enlightenment had actually been a wrong turn.

OP, you sound great. Good luck.

Sleepdeprived42long · 16/10/2021 22:43

[quote Blessex]Hey @Sleepdeprived42long welcome!!!!! If you really want to dig into what KS happening in Scotland and with this whole issue then set some time aside to listen to this new 10 episode podcast.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09yjmph[/quote]
Thanks @Blessex will get listening!

Blessex · 16/10/2021 22:40

*is not KS!!!

Blessex · 16/10/2021 22:40

Hey @Sleepdeprived42long welcome!!!!! If you really want to dig into what KS happening in Scotland and with this whole issue then set some time aside to listen to this new 10 episode podcast.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09yjmph

PhiRhoSigma · 16/10/2021 22:38

Just want to say good luck, OP. Have read all your posts and agree with everything you said. Hope the headteacher hasn't already been irreversibly indoctrinated. Let us know how you get on.

Sleepdeprived42long · 16/10/2021 22:33

Forgive me for being confused/uninformed but what exactly is the issue here? I really feel out of touch with the gender/sex/trans issues but I see they come up often on MN and I would like to be better informed. I’m in Scotland and have two children in primary school which is why im interested.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/10/2021 22:25

Well done OP and all the women in Scotland taking this on. There's a massive army of women standing with you getting increasingly loud and more powerful every day.

WeeTorag · 16/10/2021 22:03

@MidsomerMurmurs

Good luck! I too am in Scotland and have DC in Primary. It’s important to find out what’s going on; there can sometimes be reassuring glimmers of hope.

I go along to the Parent Council (virtually on Zoom at the moment). The boys’ toilets have just been refurbished. The headteacher told us that the council decided to go for cubicles (I’m guessing there were some urinals in there before). She said “The council did this just in case there are any plans to make these toilets … [almost imperceptible pause] … mixed sex in the future. I don’t think there’s any chance that will happen any time soon”.

And in that moment I knew this was a woman to be trusted.

Hey @MidsomerMurmurs slightly off topic but please explain your "Parent Council" to me? How does it work? Who's in it/runs it?

I'm standing for Parent Governor at my Son's secondary school, he's in Y8. I changed the school single handedly about their Stonewall membership and felt so alone. I didn't know how to raise it or bring in other parents as there doesn't seem to be any parent groups as such, only the Facebook year groups and that didn't feel like the right place.

If I get elected I'm going to set something up. But not sure what or how! Thanks.

dangerrabbit · 16/10/2021 22:01

Wow OP you are brave! Good for you - following in support and with interest

ArabellaScott · 16/10/2021 21:48

Right with you, OP. Appalling stuff going on in Scotland. Luckily, the women of Scotland are rising up and challenging it. ForWomen Scotland are great, as are Murray Blackburn Mackenzie and Women Speak Scotland. We won't let this pass.

SecondRateFrog · 16/10/2021 21:43

Good luck, OP. Please do report back.

Original poster

LadyNotGivingaF · 16/10/2021 20:54

Also, what is a trans kid? What is the difference between a trans boy and a gender non-conforming girl? Was I a trans kid because I fell under the category of extreme gender non-conformity? If not, why not? Only because I grew up outwardly content with the idea of being a woman (I still have body dysmorphia but because I'm not vocal about it no one can tell)?
Why are adults ok with taking away children's future possibility of changing their minds? Why is kindness considered lying to them and affirming only? Don't we as adults expect honesty as well from our closest relationships? Why not with our children?
Where does the idea "girl brain in boy body" come from? Why do we separate the brain from the body when the brain is part of the body. Why do we need medication, lifelong hormones to alter the body? Where does body positivity come into this? Why born in the wrong body when we're supposed to love and accept our amazing bodies for what they are.

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Fukuraptor · 16/10/2021 20:18

We're in Scotland too, though my children are home educated already for other reasons, if they weren't I would be considering it now. I don't want my sons to be told they are or might be less male if they don't conform to male gender stereotypes.

Affirming self ID for kids without parental knowledge or consent, and presumably without professional support as if social transitioning is nothing. The people proposing this presumably have bought into the idea that trans kids are particularly vulnerable and potentially suicidal, but they are just going to socially transition them with no support from home or mental health services?

Who is going to look after these kids' welfare? The teachers trying to to remember which pronouns their gender fluid students are using on Tuesdays?

Scraggythang · 16/10/2021 20:17

Explain everything you’ve said in this post and you’ll be more than just ‘that parent’. You’ve got experience and you can see the parallels. Good luck. 🙏

Original poster

LadyNotGivingaF · 16/10/2021 20:15

I see myself in Stella O'Malley's story as a kid, very gender non conforming, short hair until my late teens, hated anything girly because the boys had all the fun, binding my breasts with surgical tape because I hated the male attention (It did not help that girls with breasts were being chased around the classroom and called Pamela - Anderson). I don't believe teenage boys have changed much, why are adults ok with forcing them on girls?

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malloo · 16/10/2021 20:13

Good for you, let us know how you get on. I'm in Scotland too so I'm pretty worried. Mine are both at high school now, been checking out school's policies etc and so far nothing that looks too concerning but maybe I just don't know what's going behind the scenes.

Original poster

LadyNotGivingaF · 16/10/2021 20:04

@zanahoria

I'm an immigrant woman from a former communist country

Do you find that background helps to sniff out the bureaucratic bullshit?

In a way. It's what the communists did, don't believe your eyes we're not starving or freezing to death, it's all in your head, our country is flourishing and you're a western sympathizer and a terrorist. My parents have always told me to trust my instincts. A healthy mistrust of authority has always been encouraged in our household.

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