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Original poster

Quick question about ethnic identity and gender

61 replies

Ellabella222 · 16/10/2021 06:02

If Jesy Nelson is called out for presenting with black women’s characteristics but with the privilege of being white, how come men who present as women are not? Why is one bad and one acceptable?

OP posts:
Original poster
Ellabella222 · 16/10/2021 06:56

Yes Gasp it is a mystery!

OP posts:
Threadbaretoe · 16/10/2021 06:55

None of it stacks up.
People who would be horrified if black people were being told that it is reductionist to define themselves by the colour of their skin, trot out that it is bigoted and reductionist for women to define themselves by their sex.

Cwenthryth · 16/10/2021 06:54

Amnesty is, very sadly IMO, entirely captured by gender ideology, a variable set of beliefs about the concept of gender, but one that many feminists find deeply sexist and homophobic at its core, and so is rejected by many including the majority on this board. By all means do read the link provided by cocomump (who I do not believe was confused about what you meant at all btw, your post is very clear), but know it is written by lobbyists wanting to present one particular view, not universal fact. It’s good to read many opinions though obviously.

OP I think your question is a great one, and one that genderists seem unable to satisfactorily, straightforwardly answer. The closest I’ve seen recently is the UCU saying that they actually do support self-identifying as black anyway (and disabled to boot), so at least they’re being consistent with themselves, if still deeply offensive to many!

Original poster
Ellabella222 · 16/10/2021 06:54

Thanks I don’t think that site answers my question though. I understand the arguments of GC feminism and Trans rights. What my question is about is how race identity is conceptualised v sex/gender identity.

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/10/2021 06:50

It's a mystery. See also: identifying as disabled when you aren't; identifying as a child when you aren't; identifying as a gay man when you're a female attracted to men but have a trans identity; identifying as a lesbian when you're a male attracted to women but have a trans identity. In both the latter cases, gay men and lesbians have been told they are bigots and have a genital fixation for not including opposite sex people in their dating pool.

cocomump · 16/10/2021 06:45

Don't worry about the typos. If you're genuinely curious and interested to learn, the Amnesty International site has a good introductory article that can explain the basics:
www.amnesty.org.uk/LGBTQ-equality/gender-identity-beginners-guide-trans-allies

Original poster
Ellabella222 · 16/10/2021 06:40

Sorry about the typos. It’s early!

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Original poster
Ellabella222 · 16/10/2021 06:35

@cocomump

I'm confused - did you mean to ask about transwomen?
I’m not trying to be clever. It’s a genuine question. Am I asking about trans women? I suppose I am. I just don’t understand how identify is supposed to work and why it’s so different between race and sex or gender.

If some says they are black (and they are not) it is accepted that this is nonsense. If a biological make resents as a woman then we have to accept this because his/her self identity has to be upheld.

Genuinely….how is one different to the other?

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LonginesPrime · 16/10/2021 06:22

Most people (including most women) are blind to misogyny, whereas many are (thankfully) waking up to racial oppression and race privilege.

It's more about what's accepted by the majority than any absolute logic,

cocomump · 16/10/2021 06:14

I'm confused - did you mean to ask about transwomen?

Mrsjamin · 16/10/2021 06:13

Indeed. Excellent question.