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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I don't have any feelings of gender - is there a Stonewall friendly term for me?

106 replies

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 15/10/2021 12:35

Still debating my rights to single spaces with colleagues - if you didn't see my previous thread (which filled up, my first 1000 post thread on MN!) - they are trying to remove my single sex toilet.

They tell me I am "cis" because I am not trans or NB.

Google tells me that cis means that my gender aligns with my sex.

I have no feelings of gender. I appreciate others do, and for some gender is a huge influence on their life - but gender, whether I am masculine or feminine, is just not something I think about.

I could "pass" as NB today because I'm WFH and have on men's joggers, my husband's sweatshirt, no make up, my hair is short and I really should get the veet out to tackle my tache before I am back in the office. When in the office I am Smart, rather than feminine, I'll wear earrings and a bit of makeup (enough to make me look less fucking knackered) and unfussy, well made clothes bought from a shop which markets to women. Im not making a political statement from my style - I'm dressing for the job I want rather than the job I have, which is arguably a masculine approach to the workplace.

My colleague's tell me that my lack of gender makes me a-gender, but surely that means that I actively reject gender? That's not me, I don't reject it, it's an irrelevance.

Other things which are irrelevant to me are formula one racing, Little Mix, and dogs - along with an infinite number of other things. I appreciate that those things are very important to some people, and that for a few people their whole lives revolve around those things, but, I'm not expected to describe myself as a-dogs in my workplace or in my personal life - so, why am I being forced to describe myself as a-gender?

So, is there a term I'm missing? Something that describes people for whom gender is just not relevant? I'm told that "woman" is not sufficient.

I'm absolutely furious and I am standing up for myself - and in doing so I am standing up for the women in our office whom I know really need that toilet to be single sex because they have confided in me. They should not have to disclose personal history or circumstances in order to retain their legal provisions. To discuss their reasoning would be in itself be traumatising and bad manners. I am a good manager and a decent human being, it is not reasonable to expose their history as currency to justify what the law says they are entitled to. It requires no justification, it is law.

I have learned, through this tedious exercise, what 'privilege" means - I have privilege because I do not have trauma, am an expert in my field, senior in our organisation, work at a national level and know fine well that if I resigned over this it would cause a ripple in our professional bubble and I'd walk into another job tomorrow. I'm far from "don't you know who I am?" status, but, if I left this organisation it would feature in the professional press because I'd phone my friend who's the editor in the biggest professional magazine who agrees with me and my employers would like to keep me because I have an unusual skill set and will be difficult to replace. Plus, I'm really fucking nice, and great on a Christmas night out.

This combination of professional skills and people skills, robustness, luck and sense of humour means I have the freedoms to say "fuck off" to these loons who seem to be unable of critical thinking, think that repeating Stonewall mantras constitutes professional debate, or that it is correct to try and negotiate my rights in law away from me.

So, my question is - if I am not cis and I am not a-gender and I am not allowed to describe myself as "woman" - what am I?

Apart from "fucked off", that is.

OP posts:
NewlyGranny · 15/10/2021 14:53

And Stonewall is never going to have a respectful, honest name for us because, not only are we not generating money for them, we're speaking out about our taxes funding their anti-women lobbying.

CatKittyCatCatKittyCatCat · 15/10/2021 14:51

Non binary doesn’t have to be accompanied by an androgynous appearance.

I think you are agender and non-binary.

NewlyGranny · 15/10/2021 14:50

If you have no strong sense of gender, you can't be trans, can you? Trans is transitioning, which means between two different states. If you're not in a state and don't recognise states, what are transitioning from or to?

I don't have a strong sense of gender but I do have a strong sense of justice! I call myself a woman with a personality and opinions, like most of us I guess.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 15/10/2021 14:48

@Catnuzzle

I don't know, but i'm the same as you Grin
Another one here > waves <

Also, and slightly off topic, I really enjoyed your writing style OPGrin

Fariha31 · 15/10/2021 14:47

@OldTurtleNewShell

I believe 'agender' is everyone else beings in a gender box, except me. If you think no one belongs in a gender box, then you get labelled a terf. I'm also bemused by the idea that a bunch of women on a feminist board might not have thought much about sex and gender.
They have thought a lot about it, and decided the 'gender' part is bullshit.
Fariha31 · 15/10/2021 14:45

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ErrolTheDragon · 15/10/2021 14:44

@midgedude

But I actually get very distressed when people who aren't female say they are women . It's saying woman means more than body . That makes me feel sick, it means you show no respect for me snd my capabilities . It means you see woman brain as a thing Beyond rude
It seems more like they think 'woman' is something less than body - some undefinable, totally subjective feeling.
OldTurtleNewShell · 15/10/2021 14:43

I believe 'agender' is everyone else beings in a gender box, except me.
If you think no one belongs in a gender box, then you get labelled a terf.
I'm also bemused by the idea that a bunch of women on a feminist board might not have thought much about sex and gender.

Fariha31 · 15/10/2021 14:42

But we are what every we say we are. I am both.

Holly60 · 15/10/2021 14:39

@Fariha31

What if I told you I identify as Holly60, would you accept that?
On the one hand you are demanding that I accept that you feel you have no gender, but on the other you seem to be upset by my statement that I AM happy to accept it, as I will accept other people’s explanation of their identity.
ErrolTheDragon · 15/10/2021 14:38

Agender seems about right to me, by analogy with atheist. The terms recognise that others believe in gender or god(s) but that I don't.

midgedude · 15/10/2021 14:36

But I actually get very distressed when people who aren't female say they are women . It's saying woman means more than body . That makes me feel sick, it means you show no respect for me snd my capabilities . It means you see woman brain as a thing
Beyond rude

Fariha31 · 15/10/2021 14:34

Fingers crossed Holly60 (or us, as I like to say) is on top of her game job wise.

Fariha31 · 15/10/2021 14:33

@Holly60

You see I feel no dissonance because I am proud of being a woman, and want to fight sexism and misogyny as a woman. If you would really rather have a penis, then that must be a bit more complex.
Yet you are happy to ignore womans experiances? (I wont even go in to locking women up with rapists)
Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/10/2021 14:33

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/10/2021 14:32

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Holly60 · 15/10/2021 14:31

You see I feel no dissonance because I am proud of being a woman, and want to fight sexism and misogyny as a woman. If you would really rather have a penis, then that must be a bit more complex.

ShrillSiren · 15/10/2021 14:31

How far does that acceptance go? Can I identify as a 3-year-old and go to nursery?

Fariha31 · 15/10/2021 14:30

Its nothing to do with breasts or being stared at. Its about existing in a sexist society. Being an object that does not (can never really) be up to the mark. Being self concious about your existance, thats what its like being a woman in a sexist society.

Fariha31 · 15/10/2021 14:28

What if I told you I identify as Holly60, would you accept that?

Fariha31 · 15/10/2021 14:28

Its both in a sexist society.

Holly60 · 15/10/2021 14:27

@Severntrent

*Holly60

I tend to think that most people whose gender and sex are aligned probably don’t think much about it.*
But what about people who reject the idea they have a gender? Do you respect their right to this view or tell them that they feel this way because there is no dissonance?

I wouldn’t presume to tell anyone how they feel. If someone tells me how they identify, I accept that.
midgedude · 15/10/2021 14:23

I most certainly wish I didn't have breasts thank you and a penis would be useful

Holly60 · 15/10/2021 14:20

[quote Fariha31]@Holly60
But the women here are telling you that they do feel uncomfortable in their own bodies, its those bodies that get them unwelcome attention and judged, judged negatively everywhere they go.
How is that different to a 'dissonance with our own physicality'?[/quote]
Well… is it the fact that you have breasts you don’t like, or that your breasts are being stared at?

Do you wish that people wouldn’t stare at your breasts, or do you wish you didn’t have breasts and had a penis instead?

Fariha31 · 15/10/2021 14:17

Is it not that we corectly identify the problem as not in ourselfs but with society?