I'm disappointed - Zoe Williams on language

Middle class privilidge in action. She is taking the place where a good journalist should be.

Zoe Williams has been annoying me for approximately 13 years.

I remember her claiming that the NHS giving women information on optimum vitamin intake in pregnancy was sexist, and I remember shouting at the (print!) copy of the newspaper that who exactly did she think would be performing lifelong care for a child born with disabilities.

Since then, Zoe Williams has claimed on twitter that we all know we have a cervix.

Well, for one, i think it's absolute horseshit to imagine some class of "vulnerable" women who won't attend their smear test unless they're specifically invited as women. I'd go as far as to say everyone with a cervix knows they have one. So, for two, I think you're doing that >>

twitter.com/zoesqwilliams/status/1362006560118083588?t=pOmta7x3DZQaH4iygfv6NQ&s=19

Which is odd, because the amount of things Zoe has not known about, according to her columns, is phenomenal. From the existence of hayfever, and the need for reading glasses and more. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/18/i-used-to-think-hay-fever-didnt-really-exist-i-know-much-better-now

Going by her usual columns, Zoe will one day meet a woman with learning disabilities and suddenly realise they exist and should be considered in healthcare planning.

It would be nice though, if for once in her life, she could take in new information without having to personally experience any individual phenomenon herself first.

I read the article. Then I read it again. Then I read it again, more carefully. I was trying to find an argument in it, some thread through it. A position which is explained, defended and supported. I did this because I don't believe Williams is an idiot. There wasn't one.

I don't think this is in any sense a contribution to any debate. It's a piece of chewing gum stuck in a leak to give you thinking time. It's place holding by someone who is actually desperate not to have a debate and is hoping that if she flannels enough it will all go away.

I haven't read the article (life is too short). However, ZW is one of the reasons I stopped buying or reading the Guardian after more than 40 years. I remember an article by her when she indicated that there might be issues with the way Islam treats women, particularly around dress, but that she wouldn't add to the criticism because (basically) Islam should be beyond criticism as anything else would be racist. At the same time she was happy to state that the only reason anyone attends a Christian Church is to get their children into a good school. The hypocrisy and muddled thinking seemed to indicate a lot about her view of the world, and particularly of women's rights.

Entirely agree. Zoe Williams ought to stick to writing about keeping fit.

I don't think Zoe Williams signed That Guardian letter, so there's that at least. But generally I think she and The Guardian are well suited.

I read the article and was so disappointed at her use of language. Why should I be called a ‘cis woman’ and why must language evolve that excludes girls and women from our hard won equal rights?

My only printable comment is that I don't give a shit what Zoe William thinks.

Even I dont think she is as bad a LOJ, and I despise her. She does not bully people, well not in public anyway?

Language evolves but words still need definitions

And they need to be arranged in a logical order to make sense

That article, is 'the' example of Vichy Feminism

Phoney Feminism = Pheminism

It makes no sense because it certainly is responding to demands from trans activists in the form of Stonewall

Specifically one campaigner who works for the Guardian. How is Zoe Williams seemingly unaware of this?

I would guess that the NHS has to treat more mothers who are members of an Orthodox Jewish community than trans men, but there is no expectation that general policies endorse their beliefs to be more inclusive.

I have a very good command of English (I think), but it’s not my native language and words matter and mean things! So I’ve learned English and In a way where on occasions where I am unsure of a word or making a mistake I will refer to Swedish..it’s easy to translate from my native language if there was a word I don’t know.. for example one day I forgot the English word for cheese grater.. and the other day the little plate that goes under a coffe cup tea cup.. I just said under cup but then my American friend said it’s called a saucer. But translating from literal Swedish it was for me an under cup. 😂

My point is.. for those of us even considering ourselves fluent English speakers, there can be so many times where we need to have clear understanding and clear communication about what a word means.

I feel like all this word play and pronoun demands places a heavier burden on non native English speakers. Do you want people to master the language? I have a strong accent (I’ve been told) and I know sometimes people cannot understand me because I’ve pronounced words in a way that just was wrong, but I try my best. But I know I speak good English, but for someone who has a heavy accent and also is not fluent in English and hey say someone is a woman and then someone tells them someone who is obviously a woman is a man and explains all this ideaology… then what will happen?

The whole pronoun thing also can totally throw someone off as well. I would consider myself fluent in English, but I make mistakes and if someone has a strong accent then I might also have an issue to understand if they pronounce a word a certain way etc.. so I just wonder how we have any hope to get around this?

Are non native English speakers going to be unjustly and disproportionately accused of transphobia? I just really wonder about this for people who are learning English or learn English and know what woman means, what man means.

Or am I over thinking this?

Zoe Williams a horror. Dubious morals to say the least.

I think Zoe Williams is massively indulged by the Guardian. She knocks out so many pieces that they allow her just to write any rubbish she wants

This. I used to like her writing but now find her smug, glib and tedious no matter what the subject is. She’s basically a tenured columnist so presumably doesn’t need to try to be sharp or coherent anymore.

In fact, particularly in the medical case, the NHS isn’t even responding to a demand from trans people; it’s just trying to scope out to the fullest extent the ways in which professionals can get ahead of mishap. When you’re trying to care for someone in an extreme situation, such as giving birth, you’re not making rules for society – you’re just trying to build trust.

Agreed, this makes no sense at all. It makes no sense because it certainly is responding to demands from trans activists in the form of Stonewall: using gender-neutral language moves you up the workplace index. Secondly, getting rid of words such as "mother", "maternal" and "breast" don't build trust. They do the exact opposite.

Third, if you want to "get ahead of mishap" then you would want to use language that is as clear, plain and accessible to the vast majority of your patients as possible.

Hundreds of thousands of babies are born every year in the UK. How many are born to trans men? Dozens? A few hundred?

The language thing puzzles me because if people believe twaw and tmam then why do they themselves use the term 'trans' and 'cis'? It's almost like they know there is a difference.

Very poor piece. She starts out saying that nobody really wants to abolish the word Mother. We are all just being hysterical to cover up our latest phobia. Then concludes by saying of course it is correct to dump Mother because language evolves innit? In between she makes an analogy between the Suffragette struggle and transgenderism. Of course she can't make the more usual link with homosexual rights - because all those grumpy gay people would tell her where to shove it.

In fact, particularly in the medical case, the NHS isn’t even responding to a demand from trans people;

These organisations are largely responding to demands by Stonewall, but some transactivists also do make demands of organisations. They often make this public on twitter/tiktok etc so it's hardly hard to find.

trying to scope out to the fullest extent the ways in which professionals can get ahead of mishap

And yet these language changes and the many other changes being made in the name of trans inclusivity pave the way for really serious fucking "mishap" for a wide range of people - including trans people themselves if they need medical help their sex isn't recorded accurately. Not to mention women who for various reasons such as English being not their first language might not know what a cervix is so won't go for a smear for "people with a cervix". Or perhaps women being raped /attacked in prison by men who've realised all they have to do is claim to be a woman. Or female athletes who will no longer have careers if men can just invade their categories. Or lesbians who are being bullied and coerced into sex with men for fear of not being inclusive and woke. And on and on with the "mishaps"