Question Time right now!

Both the students were awful. The constant banging on about feeling ‘safe’ when then actually meant ‘not being exposed to different viewpoints that might make me feel uncomfortable. Yet when it was pointed out that Stock had actually faced threats of violence and death threats, I almost got a sense from the theatre student that Stock had brought it upon herself.

Yes. The saddest thing is that both students were female and the only way they can be safe is by buying into the ideology. Yet they are clueless of the chains imposed upon them.

Both students seemed a bit gormless to me.

Academics are not there to make students feel comfortable - they are there to advance knowledge.
Well said

Chapeau to the editor that cut from drama student waffling about “people can be born in the wrong bodies, there’s loads of science on that” straight to Robert Winston with his head in his hands
Yes, that was great.

Also, when the man in the audience asked what KS had said that was so dangerous, and FB ummed and ahed and then reread the snippet "Trans people are trans people, we should get over it. They deserve to be safe, to be visible throughout society without shame or stigma." How could that opinion be transphobic, and how confusing that must have been to those who knew nothing about this debate!

I don't think Winston was suggesting a psychologically sexed brain I think he meant more physical as in the brain gives messages to the body according to your sex.

Alison talked about the weighing if rights. I don't really understand that. When gay marriage came in what did it take away from heterosexual people who wanted to marry?

It was on from 10.35 to 11.35 so an hour not 40mins.

Ok, just realised I was looking at newsnight not question the. Absolute muppet that I am.

Sounds like you’re on a different show

I think we can't underestimate the importance of having it clearly stated on a mainstream programme like Question Time that 'there are obvious clashes here.'

I am so relieved to see an end to the 'rights are not pie' era.

But, yes, at least 99.99% of the time you can look at someone and be confident of their chromosomal makeup.

Indeed - you'll note the assumption that women are expected "know" they have a cervix. But the same people who believe that will say "how do you know what chromosomes you have"?

Please make it make sense.

So, yes, 99.99% of the time, the body forms correctly, and all of these things align. The person with clearly visible female external attributes also has every internal female attributes.

Separating these "sexes" is only to describe the anomalies. And may be necessary to pin down exactly where we draw the male/female line for individuals in DSDs in certain cases, like sports. That cares about physique, not reproductive system.

Half way? Its a 41m show.

@Moonbabysmum it's right at the end, go to around 20 minutes before the end.

Ok, maybe I'm being stupid here, I'm trying to flick through the programme and can't find it.

I can see:

Energy crisis
Pigs
Infant mortality
Social media censorship (I thought maybe in here but can't see it)

In the words of Sir Terry Pratchett “Universities are truly storehouses for knowledge: students arrive from school confident they know nearly everything, and they leave five years later certain that they know practically nothing. Where did the knowledge go in the meantime? In the university, of course, where it is dried and stored.”
We can only hope that knowledge is rapidly extracted and stored under lock and key.

Winston knows how many fingers are being held up :)

Alison Labour was absolutely creamed on WH two or three weeks ago on the issue of TW in sport. If, as @Fariha31 says, she is privately GC it's such a shame she doesn't feel able to give an honest opinion. For her, she'd come over as much less of a vacuous numpty. Plus knotty debates need people of integrity speaking on all sides if we are to make progress.

This is where we are.

Freedom of Thought is the Right to be wrong, to hold divergent and controversial opinions, perhaps disturbing to some.

We have now reached the stage where people claim the Right to be right, to have their beliefs officially recognised and validated, however bonkers.

So, normally XX = female hormones = female body. And the same but opposite for XY.

But, in rare conditions, something goes wrong. So CAID individuals (like the runner Semenya) are XY. They make male hormones, but their body doesn't respond to those male hormones. So they look superficially female but don't have ovaries or a uterus, and are sterile. At puberty, more hormones are released, which they may respond to somewhat, hence why some of these individuals develop the broad shoulders and increased muscle mass of men.

Semenya has then had her testosterone blocked to (somewhere approaching...) the normal female range. So is someone who has been brought up female, who's pudenda looks female, who is XY with male hormonal levels to which she does not respond, and which have been artificially lowered to female levels.

But, yes, at least 99.99% of the time you can look at someone and be confident of their chromosomal makeup. Just the same way I would bet with reasonable certainty, without even seeing you, that you only have one liver. I might be wrong, but it's vanishingly unlikely. The fact I'm able to name (I did have to google the spelling) an individual where that correlation is broken illustrates its rareness.

What I've never quite grasped is 'psychological-brain sex'. At least, I don't understand whether it's inborn or culturally conditioned. I say that as a woman with a stereotypically male career and interests. I'm also well aware that one of the arguments for denying women the vote was 'their girl brains can't handle it'. So I have an instinctive twitch against the concept of gendered brains. But, if Winston says it, I'm happy to listen.

Really? She just stated on national television “Transwomen are women and transmen are men” and also that “the law protects gender identity”. She didn’t need to say either of those two things. She could have fudged along a neutral sympathetic line without parroting TRA mantras and lying about the current law.

Massive disappointment. I always admired her.

@Blessex

And why aren’t people challenging statements such as ‘science has shown people can be born into the wrong body’. If I was on there - these are the statements I would to.

I don't understand how anyone can assert this when gender is widely regarded to be a social construct, so not something to be supported by science anyway.

Maybe they should have had an interpretive dance off. That would have been on tik tok and everything.

The theatre student trying to lecture Professor Winston on biology was a particular highlight. The only thing you're qualified to debate on are the themes of Starlight Express, not developmental biology.

I remember Ladybird Flies The World, in which Peter and Jane visit Africa, and their dad's friend explains how he has to watch his black workers all the time or they won't work because they're all lazy.