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Original poster

Employee letters and emails boardline abusive, I suspect it's worse due to my sex. So what's my next move?

59 replies

Femalearchaeopteryx · 14/10/2021 23:12

I run my family manufacturing business its a male dominated industry and until recently no women had been in any roles except administration.

My Dad is semi retired but will never fully retire it's his lifes work. He has a very authoritative style and he's also tall so looks domineering as well.
I can be authoritative but I believe that a mix of leadership styles is best but I lean towards autocratic. I'm tallish but softly spoken and I look nice/kind so don't look scary (like most women really).

I came into the business having done leadership roles elsewhere. I quickly realised that it needed a massive overhaul as with many businesses that have grown bigger organically it had very little control, procedures or processes in place, there was & clearly still is a poor culture of petty bullying and blaming also an individual piece work bonus system that drove division rather than teamwork to get the product finished.

Luckily I managed to get us a huge government grant close to a million that is specifically for improving manufacturing via training/coaching/mentoring to help with improvements and change.

As part of the improvements we have an anonymous employee survey and suggestion box.

We have also just got rid of the bonus system with the new pay system everyone is earning more and their pay is more stable throughout the year.

Hopefully that has given you enough background.

So we have been getting letters from a group of employees that are increasingly aggressive and rude. Which started when we changed the pay system. Those we have people's signatures and after the last letter we will be discussing with each individual and launching an investigation as the letter overstepped, into abuse.

We have also been getting rude aggressive emails from our employee engagement I'm considering if I should publish extracts (obviously anonymised) in our employee newsletter and raise the abuse the leadership team have been receiving although I am not sure though if that just gives these kind of people more power.

Mostly of the 90 odd employees it will only be a few and I know who that are behaving in this way.

I am sure a lot of this is to do with my sex and a bit of a power play...put me in my place kind of thing...So I'd be interested to hear from other women what their response would be.

And before anyone complains I do know what I am doing and have lots of experience managing people, I'm just interested in other women's thoughts and insight as particularly MN are a knowledgeable and experienced lot.

OP posts:
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CruellaDeVilla · 25/10/2021 21:13

Haven’t RTFT but I’d separate the comments from the way they are phrased IIWY.

Sanitise the comments and tell people you’re looking at actions to take (without promising action on everything, in fact I’d make that clear, that you can’t promise action on everything).

Then separately address the conduct issues. I’d consider a dignity at work policy and remind everyone that it’s fine to give feedback but that being constructive is important. Make it clear that nobody should be expected to tolerate abuse.

StartingAgain6369 · 25/10/2021 21:12

@stillonthattightrope

So you put your whole workforce at a serious financial disadvantage to deal with a few people taking the piss?

No you have got that the wrong way round the ones taking the piss are putting the whole of the workforce at risk, with them going on the piss at the weekend and not turning into work on Monday jeopardises the whole of the businesses and not only that it loads up extra stress onto the workforce who are trying to cover for the ones who have got absolutely pissed over the weekend and can't be bothered to come into work and think they can use sick pay as additional holiday

My management style over the years has given employees a comfortable lifestyle, it has given several disadvantage people a fresh start in the jobs market, it has given reassurance to lady leaving her husband that she will have an income

The ones who are genuinely ill got discretionary sick pay up to their normal wages

Distantview · 25/10/2021 21:08

I used to lead an all-male team, some of whom were the kind of difficult dinosaurs you're describing. I reorganised and made the troublemakers redundant - this was public sector where going through capability was impossible.

As others have said, making sure you have a clear 'expected behaviours' policy is vital, deal with transgressions through your disciplinary procedures if necessary.

You definitely do need to manage out the troublesome behaviour/people. One piece of advice I was given that it's possible to get rid of anyone, it just depends how much you want to spend.

You also need to consider reputation and what your actions do in terms of attracting the staff you want and need.

Good luck!

RandomMess · 25/10/2021 21:07

It all sounds so very tedious!!

May the annoying underperformers be on their way soon..

ancientgran · 25/10/2021 21:03

@Femalearchaeopteryx

Yes no one is losing everyone is gaining. We were very careful of that as actually do want to be fair. Whilst also getting rid of a unfair difficult to control system.

We have already written to every employee with the details and with the letter writing lot we have done so on more than one occasion plus offered individual meetings so they cod compare to their previous salary confidentially.

Sadly some of this is legacy from the culture I inherited.

Oh funnily one of the things they are being most abusive about is that me or the factory director are refusing to have a group meeting with them to discuss their grievances, (we've offered them other avenues to express these). I know exactly what would happen if we did, the ring leaders would use it to show their power and we'd have loads of grand standing.

Before I retired I had a similar issue. I did have the group meeting but as soon as the grandstanding started I took that person outside and asked them why they were behaving like that, asked for an example of what they complained about. They went back into the meeting and it was productive but it was a difficult meeting to manage.

One trick was someone raising issues that didn't affect them, claiming they were sorry for X which was great as I'd then ask X if they wanted the changes to be cancelled (I knew they had benefitted and mentioned the benefits for them) they backed me.

It was tiresome and I don't know if it would always work. Good luck.

Original poster
Femalearchaeopteryx · 25/10/2021 20:53

@PandorasMailbox

Just one question OP.

Can I come and work for you? Grin

Yes you can we'll rename the business MN Inc 😁 we'll specialise in feminist discussion 🦕 and have a rapid response parking team 🐧

Thanks for the info Abitof I'll look that up.

The leadership team and I are thinking overnight if we go for the hardline which could present us all with lots of extra unnecessary work or we go with the talking to all of them and putting a line in the sand that if it is crossed gets them straight to a disciplinary. It's clear from the things they have said that the old leadership have caused a lot of these problems for us and (rightly so for some of the things) this has left the workforce angry.

We also haven't been focusing enough on there but in fairness we've been doing a heck of a lot and aren't superhuman yet.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 25/10/2021 10:23

Book looks interesting, AbitofaLark, thanks!

Pyewackect · 25/10/2021 07:47

Ppl resist change and some prove totally inflexible but it depends how important to the operation these people are. The “ nobody is irreplaceable “ isn’t always the case, certainly at the moment. My husband’s firm have been trying to recruit technical staff for over 12 months as the existing staff are pissed off with having to work two peoples jobs. The problem is compounded by revival companies looking too and he’s losing employees to the competition. It’s a difficult situation. However if you intend to sack these people then you need to have grounds to do so and be able to back it up in a tribunal. That is time consuming and messy. I’ve seen it go horribly wrong and it’s cost an awful lot of money in compensation not to mention reputational damage.

stillonthattightrope · 25/10/2021 07:33

@StartingAgain6369

When I had my business we had big problems with late teens early twenties staff not showing up on a Monday after a heavy weekend partying

I changed the employment contract to SSP from full pay, with full pay kicking in after a weeks illness subject to Drs note

Almighty kick off regarding the change which I countered by saying that's what you pay NI for, I'm sure you can guess what happened regarding Monday's going forward

I also brought in return to work forms/interviews for any absence

Your team leaders should be onto this

So you put your whole workforce at a serious financial disadvantage to deal with a few people taking the piss?

Sounds like a poor management style to me.

What about those people who are genuinely ill and will struggle with bills because SSP is so low?

PandorasMailbox · 25/10/2021 07:09

Just one question OP.

Can I come and work for you? Grin

Abitofalark · 24/10/2021 22:23

@Femalearchaeopteryx

Well this is interesting apparently the 7 (yes you read that correctly) letters wouldn't have been written if we had done what we where told by them in the first place.

Most of the ire seems to be focused on the women in the leadership team. They are wrong and need to learn their place basically! Our FD with years of experience is wrong and can't calculate she actually showed them the calculations but that was to complex for them to understand but they are still wrong so how can they be both!!

They have also said that if I had done what they had told me & gone to meet them then there wouldn't have been the letters, how many directors do you know who as soon as an employee demands a meeting drops everything. There is an escalation process for HR issues but they are so special that they get to skip that.

I'm not allowed to deligate whilst running the business, Doesn't matter that I was meeting a client, who would land us a 10 year contract, or meeting another client, or dealing with a supplier not delivering on a £10m contract.

If I didn't know it already I definitely do now that I have a cultural problem to deal with!

Oh dear. This focus on the female bosses reminds me once again of the book "The Authority Gap: Why women are still taken less seriously than men, and what we can do about it" by Mary Ann Sieghart, which might interest you.

I haven't read it but know of it because she did a programme on Radio 4 recently based on the research she commissioned for the book. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000ydx0

As one commenter put it: "The Authority Gap demonstrates that no matter the person or profile, the gender gap is perpetuated by systemic perceptions of women’s authoritative ability."

It has been well reviewed and recommended:

www.amazon.co.uk/Authority-Gap-women-still-seriously/dp/0857527568?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

ArabellaScott · 24/10/2021 18:03

Yes, at very least make formal disciplinary notes on anyone who made any abuse at all, and pull them up for it. Have it on their record, in writing.

I would also seek to raise up people who are working in accord with companies' aims and ethos and make that pretty clear to everyone. Maybe some promotions, raises, recognition, etc. Just trying to tip the balance into a more positive one, encouraging respect etc.

StartingAgain6369 · 24/10/2021 16:23

When I had my business we had big problems with late teens early twenties staff not showing up on a Monday after a heavy weekend partying

I changed the employment contract to SSP from full pay, with full pay kicking in after a weeks illness subject to Drs note

Almighty kick off regarding the change which I countered by saying that's what you pay NI for, I'm sure you can guess what happened regarding Monday's going forward

I also brought in return to work forms/interviews for any absence

Your team leaders should be onto this

Original poster
Femalearchaeopteryx · 24/10/2021 16:16

Thanks Arabella unfortunately we can't get rid of the whole department but we'll really ramp up disciplinaries for any bad behaviour.

We've found with other teams and sites there's usually one or two toxic people and once they start getting warnings everyone else stops poor behaviour as well. In fact we've had feedback that it's lovely when the trouble makers are gone even when they think they are popular.

OP posts:
Original poster
Femalearchaeopteryx · 24/10/2021 16:11

@StartingAgain6369

Are any of the ones on sick the same as the letter authors?
We've dealt with those people already. But worth having a quick look to double check they aren't sliding as clearly that department leader isn't performing. So we'll up the support he gets.
OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 24/10/2021 15:48

I would be hugely disinclined to keep anyone on board that doesn't chime with company's ethos and principles.

Forging signatures sounds like gross misconduct to me, I'd be considering sacking them immediately, and anyone giving abuse would be subject to serious disciplinaries at least, depending on how bad it was.

I'd probably then look at an overall audit of company's HR practises, ethos, employees satisfaction and performance. Root and branch. Get rid of anyone who's not willing to change their outlook and be solidly behind supporting the company. But concurrently perhaps look at restructuring and bringing in some fresh faces and good solid replacements. Sounds like you're already doing this, mind you!

Well done on the grant, it sounds like you're doing great. Smile

StartingAgain6369 · 24/10/2021 15:47

Are any of the ones on sick the same as the letter authors?

Original poster
Femalearchaeopteryx · 24/10/2021 15:43

Yes we have HR has added to the potential disciplinary list and is really frustrated with the whole situation particularly as they've been helping us to improve the business for everyone's benefit.

Unfortunately there is no swearing in the letters but there's enough.

Although nothing surprises me I still can't believe the arrogance, well I can but didn't one of them go hold up guys I think you are being a bit dramatic. They've given us information offered us 1 to 1s, proved we'll be earning more.

Problem is the previous leadership have been to soft on micro aggression and behaviour in general some people had so much signal days of sickness they would have gone off the end of the Bradford scale.

It is interesting that it was very much an autocratic regime so you'd think everyone would under control but scratch the surface and they are out of control.

OP posts:
StartingAgain6369 · 24/10/2021 15:25

After reading your post today I think you have every right to be ranty and grumpy

You definitely have a cultural problem, have you had any guidance from HR what to do next? any of the 7 broken the firms employment contract?

Original poster
Femalearchaeopteryx · 24/10/2021 14:27

Can u tell I feel a bit ranty and grumpy today 😉

OP posts:
Original poster
Femalearchaeopteryx · 24/10/2021 14:26

Well this is interesting apparently the 7 (yes you read that correctly) letters wouldn't have been written if we had done what we where told by them in the first place.

Most of the ire seems to be focused on the women in the leadership team. They are wrong and need to learn their place basically! Our FD with years of experience is wrong and can't calculate she actually showed them the calculations but that was to complex for them to understand but they are still wrong so how can they be both!!

They have also said that if I had done what they had told me & gone to meet them then there wouldn't have been the letters, how many directors do you know who as soon as an employee demands a meeting drops everything. There is an escalation process for HR issues but they are so special that they get to skip that.

I'm not allowed to deligate whilst running the business, Doesn't matter that I was meeting a client, who would land us a 10 year contract, or meeting another client, or dealing with a supplier not delivering on a £10m contract.

If I didn't know it already I definitely do now that I have a cultural problem to deal with!

OP posts:
Original poster
Femalearchaeopteryx · 16/10/2021 23:18

Probably not as much as if I had a 🥒timeis a lot of what we are doing won't really show until a year or so.

Thanks abitof & starting yes the contracts have been recently checked we are just updating the hand book as well. We've got a few ways to communicate we have an issue log in every area as well although there is more work to do on showing that items that are communicated are looked at or if they aren't why not. Although I'm sure for the ones that are complaining even that won't be good enough!

OP posts:
timeisnotaline · 16/10/2021 23:07

I hope your family all appreciate your stellar contribution as a hitherto underestimated member of the non penis havers OP!

StartingAgain6369 · 16/10/2021 19:40

@Femalearchaeopteryx

Can I also add my congratulations on getting the big grant.

It looks like you have got everything under control, apart from a few guys who are willy waving.
The reason why I mentioned appraisals it will help you in engineering the unwanted out of the door.
I’m pretty sure you have done all the following with the experience you have mentioned but sometimes it’s good to have someone else comment. Have you had your employment contracts independently checked recently, do they including acceptable behaviour and a social media policy, has any of the likely suspects been running the company down online?
Are the employees doing the job as detailed in their employment contract?
Try and close off any potential loose end just in case someone goes legal, the last thing you want is a ET.
I wouldn’t publish anything in a newsletter regarding the abuse yet, but if you do have it checked first.
Get all your back-office bits together legally and for the long-term benefit of the business.
With the above done, then I would go after the BMWs – Bitches, Moaners and Whingers

Regain the time back wasted on these individuals

Abitofalark · 16/10/2021 19:29

Congratulations on getting the big grant. Brilliant achievement.

Perhaps you could sidestep the demand for a meeting with the disgruntled by instituting some other form of regular meetings for groups of staff or teams to air ideas and make positive suggestions for improvement for feeding up through management.

Draw on the work of these groups and any surveys to formulate and bed in values and principles and practice of good management / employee relations and reflect their contribution back to them in a yearly get together with all managers and staff - with an element of recognition and small rewards to teams for ideas adopted or successfully implemented.

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