A thought about 'cis'

Just as short women and tall women are both women, but the adjective simply describes different sub-categories of women, cis women and trans women are both women, and those adjectives simply describe different sub-categories of women

What makes trans women actually women in the same way that ‘CIS’ women are women? What is it that makes somebody belong to the category of woman, CIs woman or trans woman? Because we already have a definition for “woman” which also nicely encompasses 95% of cis women too. The maybe 5% of women who do not consider themselves cis women but trans men do not get to relabel the other 95% and the transwomen who want to opt into the category women without any of the necessary criteria for them to actually belong there don’t get to rename us to suit their agenda either.

If they want to call themselves TW, TM, NB or any other name they like, knock themselves out. They don’t get to call us anything which doesn’t expressly describe the way WE IDENTIFY! GC feminists do not accept the label cis in the same way that TW do not accept the label man. It may be factually correct but they do not identify that way. So please just FFs stop with the cis crap. I’m not a cis woman, I don’t identify as one and therefore I’m NOT one. Im a woman. Just that. No other label needed. I don’t identify as a white woman, or an able bodied woman, despite those also being factually correct. And I won’t be signing off my emails with a long list of things I’m not, or declaring my identity as heterosexual or suffering with an autoimmune condition, despite those also being much bigger parts of my life than whether or not my innate sense of womanhood (whatever the fuck that is) matches up with my tits and ovaries.

Ah. This is ready OP. And I'd appreciate this as clever very clever if it wasn't fucking us over.

It went.

1. Trans women and cis women are just subgroups of women. Like black women lesbian women etc. Cis is no big deal. It's just to differentiate. Cis/ trans.

1. Any female without a tran identity is cis. Full stop. No having their stared gender id (and most especially claiming but to have no such feelings) are irrelevant. If others say you're cis that's what you are.

1. Trans women are and always have been women. Girls.

And thus we see the following phasing emerging-

Women and Cis women.

Female going so no words to describe us as a group at all. Only acceptable terms have the effect of thinking of us as not one group as a whole, but to see us as unlinked sub sub groups-

Menstruators
Ovulators
Bodies with vaginas
Gestators
Birthing people
Etc etc.

No overall term for all those born to 'it's a girl' in the whole world, 3 billion- ish women and girls.
Thus. Separate groups, different issues. Much more difficult to do or say anything to talk about this all as a whole IE what used to be called women's issues. Issues that effect women and girls. And not just related to biology. If can't use those words for all female people. Then saying things like sexual violence against women and girls globally. Either includes males. Or needs to be rephrased to people with vaginas or similar.
Reluctance so far to use the new language in those type of situations even amongst the main champions of the language. Will take longer to be seen as acceptable generally as obv vv crass.

So there, the steps that have taken place.

Women and Cis women.

Clever. Appalling.

Ha ha yes I had the exact same conversation whilst I was explaining to my mum what ‘cis’ was
We both laughed - but if there is only women no matter the biology. Cis would not exist. Definite own goal!

This is why the whole identity movement is crashing so badly.

Once it moved into controlling language it was dead in the water.

Say what just passingthrough

Say what ?

What you on about

What’s Latin go to do with it ?

What’s Latin go to do with the word woman

🤣🤣

Just as short women and tall women are both women, but the adjective simply describes different sub-categories of women, cis women and trans women are both women, and those adjectives simply describe different sub-categories of women.

It’s a made up bullshit word

Woman = adult human female

My 17 yo DS likes to talk to me about imaginary numbers in further maths, almost like he enjoys the complexity making my brain hurt

The difference is, 'imaginary' numbers are real, and extremely useful. (I taught my dd the basic idea of imaginary and complex numbers in about ten minutes with a scrap of paper and pencil. )

I know raised. It’s just so much blah blah identity blah blah bleat bleat

Like toddlers and crusts on bread

So tired with the toddlers and the blah blah bleat bleat people

@DadJoke

If I turned up to operate on you, say for a vasectomy, put a camera up your urethra or to conduct a heart transplant, would you let me go ahead if said I feel like a surgeon, I identity as a surgeon, oh but I am not qualified and have no recognised training?

If not why not?

Och the whole gender identity is so much shite.

Unbelievable that anyone spouts this stuff and even more unbelievable that people belive it

Just nonsense

Gender identity is a very, very straightforward and almost universally recognised concept in psychology. It seems bizarre to me that you have an almost religious resistance to the idea of it. Why would that be?

Reminds me of a lesson I was taught as a young girl in a religious school. But we were talking about souls. While the concept of souls was almost universally recognized by Christians, this lesson was a way to show that the non-Christian souls were lost to Satan. But then I grew up and stopped believing in souls, but I'm sure that doesn't stop some Christians from thinking I still have a soul and that my soul is lost.

Ooops. Sentence should read three stages.

It's the manipulation of language in three stages stages:

1 Insist that women be referred as 'cis women'.

2 Insist on being referred to as 'women' to differentiate from 'cis women'.

3 Insist on being called 'cis women' so that 'cis women' will be referred to as 'non-men'.

Anyone who uses the term 'woman' to refer to an adult human female will be labelled a transphobe and a bigot.

To me cis is the Construction Industry Scheme from HMRC (helpful )

Trans women want to transition to being women. Therefore no extra labels needed for them.
And certainly not for anyone else. I find the idea that because someone else wants to join womanhood, they insist on labelling me, utterly offensive and discriminatory.

@DadJoke

If you answer the question "are you a woman?" "yes", that's your gender identity.

I know what’s bothering me about your answer. There’s a problem with this definition.

The meaning of your question is “Do you have a gender identity of woman?”

However, I would be answering a different question: “Do you have a sex of woman?”

Therefore, you couldn’t know my gender identity that way. They are two completely different meanings and concepts. Just doesn’t work.

I will never accept the term and shall correct anyone who refers to me as such. I am an adult human biological female.

I definitely agree, OP. 'Cis' forces us into a regressive gender box, then tells we are oppressors because they think we belong in a box marked 'cis women'.
'Cis' only works as a concept if you don't recognise women as individuals, and instead see us as natural conformists to some nebulous stereotypical identity. It's bloody awful and sexist AF.

@DadJoke

If you answer the question "are you a woman?" "yes", that's your gender identity.

I think you are missing the point. Please listen because this is so important.

I can answer the question "are you a woman?" With "yes" only if the word "woman" means an adult human female, ie a simple physical decriptor that has nothing to do with identity.

But if you then tell me that "woman" is not a simple fact of the physical body, then my answer to the above question has to be "I don't know, what is a woman and how can I tell if I am one?"

Do you see the problem? By removing the basis on which most so-called "cis" people would call themself a man or a woman, you make the term "cis" meaningless in practice. It's not enough to say what a woman is not (not a female bodied person, not a social stereotype, etc etc), if you really want cis, and indeed trans, to be a meaningful concept you need to be able to say what she is, so that I, who by your definitions cannot be a woman just because I have a female body, know how to tell if I am one or not.

This is not sophistry. This is not me playing word games. This is a real question I am struggling with. It as important to me as a trans woman's gender is to her. If I am not a woman by my body which is the only reason I previously thought myself one, what is it that I could recognise in myself that would make me one?

Hello @DadJoke

What puzzles me is that the difference between men and women is biology, I’m no scientist but I’m not aware of any other differences. So women and trans men share biology and men and trans women share biology. What do cis women and trans women share that makes them all women?

It’s more that the socially defined sets of men and women are two circles that overlap one another with trans being within the overlaps. So transmen and transwomen, are both simultaneously a subset of men and of women.

In barest of terms:
Transmen are biologically women but live socially as or identify as men
Transwomen are biologically men but live socially as or identify as women

Of course, this is almost a religion in a way because the emphasis on identity is being placed on internal belief, not external biology. So it’s upside down to scientific thought since the 1700s.

“If you answer the question "are you a woman?" "yes", that's your gender identity.”

Nonsense! I answer yes because I was born female and grew up and until about two years ago, nobody was pretending anything different.

Stop trying to force false language changes on a world that doesn’t agree.