A thought about 'cis'

Cis" means 'on this side of'. In Classical Latin, it was a geographic indicator ("Cisalpine Gaul" ––Gaul on this side of the Alps). I use the system of pronunciation generally accepted by Latinists (i.e. the one proposed by W. Sidney Allen in Vox Latina). I have a degree in Classics.

Now, of course, your retort here will be something along the lines "see! it is just geographical!" – but that is not the point.

Just as 'trans' originally meant 'across' in a geographical sense, it started to be used in English to mean something more figurative, and the present use of 'cis' has accompanied that to be the opposite of whatever 'trans' is used for. Hence trans(gender) women and cis(gender) women.

This idea that the adjective 'cis' is inherently insulting or derogatory is just mystifying to me, honestly. It has no negative connotation. It is literally descriptive like "tall".

Au contraire, mon ami.

My retort will be quite simple:

why were you perpetrating over-simplifying information on a forum which allows you 15,000 characters per post, if you have a degree in Classics?

Twice, you said it meant the opposite of trans. Twice. Why? (cūr? ) It is understandable if you would say this if you know it from tumblr or as a technical word in another discipline where trans/cis are used as opposites.

It is incomprehensible that you should do so if you are a classisist, except out of ideological reasons, i.e. intellectual dishonesty.

Also, "adjective"? It was a Latin preposition. It is, today, an accepted prefix of limited usage, and its usage as an "adjective" in one context is the subject of vigorous and impassioned debate. It's hardly in the same class as "tall", is it.

The OP isn't saying the reason 'Cis' is being pushed on women is as a mere slur or insult though.

And I understand it! I understand that for people who deny that trans women can be women, the word 'cis'' seems superfluous and unnecessary, because the word 'woman' will suffice on its own.

But for people who don't share that view, the word 'cis' is just descriptive. I have never understood why anyone thinks it was designed to be an insult or a slur, when 99% of people I see using it just use it to mean, descriptively, "non-transgender people".

Now, of course, your retort here will be something along the lines "see! it is just geographical!" – but that is not the point.

Just as 'trans' originally meant 'across' in a geographical sense, it started to be used in English to mean something more figurative, and the present use of 'cis' has accompanied that to be the opposite of whatever 'trans' is used for. Hence trans(gender) women and cis(gender) women.

This idea that the adjective 'cis' is inherently insulting or derogatory is just mystifying to me, honestly. It has no negative connotation. It is literally descriptive like "tall".

@ErrolTheDragon, 'trans' is short for 'transgender', not 'transitioning'.

I think the OP's point about the real, as opposed to the stated, reason for gender ideology's concept of "cis", is spot on.

Just as short women and tall women are both women, but the adjective simply describes different sub-categories of women, cis women and trans women are both women, and those adjectives simply describe different sub-categories of women.

That is all fine IF you believe that trans women are women, and in order to believe that you must first believe that womanhood is a mentality or an expression of personality rather than a simple fact of the body.

If you do not believe that, then the assertion above is simply a nonsense. It does nothing to make the case that trans women are women, it simply assumes it and then uses that assumption to "prove" it. Logic fail.

Cis is used because they’d get less attention if there were just ‘women’
Everyone needs to know how different and special they are and how cis women just don’t understand how hard it is etc etc

This is female socialisation isn't it. I do it. I can't help myself.

Listen, engage, explain, etc.

How many times irl have I done that in s topic with a man. And I argue this that. And he just ignored it/ dismissed it/ says you don't understand properly/ you are biased etc etc...

Same dynamic.

I was making a point

Originally I said...

Cystitis
Cistern
Cyst...

I loathe the way the activists. Zoom down to specialised things to make points and merrily ignore the massive obvious ones that have been total common knowledge for ever.

Eg.
TWAW! Need to use women spaces
Women spaces are sex segregation. Internal gender irrelevant. It's about bodies. That's the whole point!
Nope look. Hormone wash, clownfish, made up thing about brain scans.
Erm.... Sidetracked into arguing at length that humans aren't clownfish etc.

cis women and trans women are both women, and those adjectives simply describe different sub-categories of women.

I am the pope. I am the pope. I really am the pope. I am, I am, I am, I am, I am the pope. No one else is the pope except me. I am the pope, the only pope.

No. Doesn't matter how often you repeat it, it doesn't become true. And everyone knows that, even if they don't dare say so.

Google has some! Eg cisoid, cisleithan...

Cissoid isn't constructed from the Latin 'Cis' , it's Greek 'Ivy like'. Cisleithian looks to be like another one 'cisalpine' - the Latin prefix is used in geography as well as chemistry.

Google has some! Eg cisoid, cisleithan...

Either way cis isn't a word generally understood etc....

And yet.

1. Suddenly the 3 billion women and girls in the world who have never heard of/ have no interest in/ are baffled by being known as cis automatically. Thread recently I was advised by an advocate of the new language that all women in Uighar camps were going to be cis. It was seen as funny to imagine otherwise... Ha ha? The way this all works globally outside here USA etc is of ZERO interest, thought, interest, anything.

1. Any woman who does not agree is cis. The end.

1. 'The Cis' etc is linked invariably to insults and worse

And MOST IMPORTANTLY.

The utter barefaced arrogance to TELL women and girls approx 3 billion half the population that they need to accept this PLUS accept being referred to by our cunts etc.

I mean. WTAF? Seriously. Why should we all do that? Say of yeah. Women girls includes penis people. That's new! Fine. No probs having all that changed. No need for terms like that anyway. If need to refer to us, referring to our vaginas is fine! Yep. If there's one things women and girls want it's for society to be constantly reminded that when they want to talk about us, to think about our reproductive organs etc.

Cunts breeders bleeders. Yay!!!!

But I'm pretty sure the origins of 'trans' in the context of 'transwomen' comes from dysphoric males transitioning - the trans- prefix which has no Cis- equivalent. And note it is a prefix not a separate word in this case so 'transwoman' rather than 'trans woman' is correct, just like in 'transgender'.

The oh it's fine it means opposite. That's all. Chemistry!

Outside of chemistry it is used in many words to mean travelling/ moving from> to.
Trans-siberian express. Transatlantic liner. Transplant. Transcribe. Etc.

Never cis though....

Based on a talk given to the CPGB’s Summer Communist University

If you are promoting trans rights orthodoxy - arguing that most female people are ‘cis’, and that being a woman is about having feminine feelings of submissiveness - you are buying liberty for only a few, while slapping chains on the rest of us.

weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1363/orthodoxy-and-its-discontents/

And any woman who disagrees IS cis irrespective of stated ID. Including obv none. (Agender in gender speak).

I have seen it said that X people (X= anyone female who thinks sex > gender id) may well CLAIM to have no gender etc. Any woman who says that is probably a bigot. Denying they are cis is a big clue / confirmation. Whatever they say they ARE cis.

+++ plenty of instances with various insults , violent intentions expressed towards 'the cis'.

So....

At least we're not truscum eh? Possibly hated even more than women who say no. Fellow transpeople. Not listened to, ever. To see and what they think and why. Often afaik been transitioned for years and full surgery. Not cis obv. Can't be trans obv because the worst of the worst. Scum. Yep. Scum.

Agree re-

'People simply use 'cis' as an adjective which means the opposite of 'trans''

Is clearly obviously not true.

Cis women have been positioned as having huge privilege over trans women.

Many examples that I've seen of how difficult it is for trans women- worse than others esp 'cis' women.

Cite things that have happened to women forever. With zero awareness of their ignorance or just how crass it is.

Eg mobile.twitter.com/ryanjohnbutcher/status/942714839109128192?s=20

The post that I quoted suggested that 'cis' was a "made up bullshit word". I responded to point out that it was not a made-up word, because it is a Latin word, being the opposite of 'trans'.

You keep saying this.

Can you please define the word cis as a Latin word (and if you would, what pronunciation system you use) without, at any point, using the word "trans".

I'm not going to ask you to define it in Latin. English will do. Just without saying the word "trans".

One of my pro gender friends explained to me that trans women are male bodied with a “womanly identity”,and cis women are female bodied with a “womanly identity”. But then she also conceded that some cis women don’t feel they have a womanly identity so are women by virtue of being female. If that’s the case, there is exactly no overlap between female women and male women! In order to say that trans women are a subset of women, you need to define “woman” in such a way that both cis and trans women have something in common. That thing can’t be bodily. So it has to be mental. The fact that a large chunk of women say they lack a gender essence or identity renders the search for a definition of woman that unifies cis and trans women futile. This is why I think a rhetorical trick has to be played - if you are apt to answer “yes” to the question “are you a woman?” Then bingo , you have a womanly identity. But this doesn’t follow because answering yes to a question is just a behaviour and not necessarily evidence that one has a womanly mental state or womanly identity. This theory would be correct if the ONLY reason a person was apt to say they are a woman is if they have a womanly gender identity - and there seems to be no reason to believe that is so.

The problem I have with trans theory is on the surface it displays a certain degree of “truthiness”. It seems plausible. But when you dig into a bit it’s full of massive logical holes. It’s a bit like trying to reconcile a world of suffering with an omnipotent, omniscient god… it just doesn’t make much sense.

@JustPassingThrough3 and @DadJoke if cis women and trans women are both subcategories of woman, how do you categorise woman?

It sets up a hierarchy in the competitive victim stakes.

I have Cis Privilege
While Trans women are victim of that.
And cannot possibly have that status compromised by any relationship with male privilege.

I dunno. When I first read about the Cis label I could see that on one level it removed the discrepancy between ‘normal / default’ and ‘other’, and in the context text of objective discussion, was reasonable.

The total lack of objective discussion has made me 100% against using the term to describe myself.

Agree @NiceGerbil

I did laugh with my mum. Most of the world don’t know they are being referred to like this!

However on a recent equalities form it asked if I was cis. So… it’s no joke really. I was so angry. It basically meant women weren’t being counted for equality purposes anymore. And no one cares!

I don’t think she’s wrong. 😊

Ha ha again an own goal here…
some people have decided that it is a grievous insult. Nobody is trying to control language. that is a great example of gas lighting control. Some people - you mean the ones (women) who have been ordered to name themselves cis instead, whether on forms or conversation - by those not women or cis or whatever - cannot even express that they don’t like it?!

People simply use 'cis' as an adjective which means the opposite of 'trans'

"People* don't. Gender identity fans do.