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Original poster

What is this called?

59 replies

TreaslakeandBack · 13/10/2021 17:34

I don’t know a lot about this subject I admit.
I am a feminist who believes that woman = adult human female.
I am not anti trans- people who are born male but feel female should be supported to
live as female if that’s what they want. Same with men. Live and let live.
They shouldn’t be allowed to go in women only spaces unless they have had bottom surgery and full hormones. Same with men.
Women should not be referred to as bodies with cervixes or any other rubbish. Women are women. Men are men.
Trans women are transwomen. Transmen are transmen. Most of the time it won’t matter but in certain circumstances eg sports, single sex clubs and spaces etc they should own it and not try to be something they are not.
I’m not a TERF obviously as that has a very anti trans connection.
What am I?

OP posts:
Enough4me · 13/10/2021 18:23

Men look like men, even castrated ones, even with wigs and make up.

How would you check bottom surgery had taken place OP?

LaetitiaASD · 13/10/2021 18:16

@CherryHug

i think if you dress as a woman but still have male reproductive parts, you shouldn't be in female spaces and vice versa.

If you have had all the operations and have a 'vagina' then knock yourself out.

Probably makes me a TERF but I wouldn't go so far as to become violent about it or incite such.

Well, no man has got a vagina or a "vagina" whatever sex change ops he has. He might have a hole, but not every hole beneath the waistline is a vagina as I presume most on here know.

On what basis does "full surgery" make someone born, grown and brought up male less of a threat to women?

Even if they were no threat to women should we not still consider that they are not female and that they have no right to enter women's single sex spaces even if only to protect the odd woman from minor feelings of discomfort?

To be clear - I believe these men still are a potential threat even post-op, AND even if they arent it is women's perceptions that is most key.

And besides the one thing trans people really don;t seem to want is genital inspections, which means male bodies need to stay out of women's spaces because there is no way of verifying that they are cock and balls free.

Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 13/10/2021 18:15

Probably makes me a TERF but I wouldn't go so far as to become violent about it or incite such.

Who is inciting violence on the 'Terf' side? Confused

MrGHardy · 13/10/2021 18:14

"I am a feminist who believes that woman = adult human female."

I’m not a TERF obviously as that has a very anti trans connection."

You are a terf.

I was gonna link a video by Jelle Dekkers but it seems YouTube deleted his account. Go figure.

Artichokeleaves · 13/10/2021 18:06

I think many women here share your views.

It's important to bear in mind: while someone who is a religious extremist to their faith may choose to call you a heretic or an infidel for not sharing their faith, and see this as you deserving punishment - it does not make them objectively right. You do not have to agree with, or accept the unpleasant labels they are rude and intolerant enough to try and hand you.

It is their problem, their failure of tolerance and ability to manage mutual respect and diversity. Not yours.

CherryHug · 13/10/2021 18:05

i think if you dress as a woman but still have male reproductive parts, you shouldn't be in female spaces and vice versa.

If you have had all the operations and have a 'vagina' then knock yourself out.

Probably makes me a TERF but I wouldn't go so far as to become violent about it or incite such.

Original poster
TreaslakeandBack · 13/10/2021 18:04

Really don’t care about the Labour Party 😂, or any other organisations.
I work at a University and although the department I work in doesn’t really get too involved in much I was talking about the recent Lancet article to a colleague. We both felt it was rude to not call us women. I am proud to be a woman and obviously that includes my biology. I have endometriosis and don’t think it’s right that anyone who can’t suffer that should be able to call themselves a woman. It’s a bloody awful
Illness.
I’ve also noticed this pronoun thing on Twitter and a few emails. Not many but am very puzzled by it.

OP posts:
PastMyBestBeforeDate · 13/10/2021 18:04

How are you going to tell who's had 'bottom surgery'?

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 13/10/2021 18:03

You are a sane and rational adult who refuses to tell lies for aggressive people, OP. You are a feminist, and therefore will be called a terf.

LaetitiaASD · 13/10/2021 18:00

@TreaslakeandBack

Yes because women don’t have a penis.
A woman is not "an adult without a penis"
LaetitiaASD · 13/10/2021 17:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

TeamRex · 13/10/2021 17:57

Do you want a label to describe your views, or are you asking how that would be seen by organisations such as the Labour Party, Stonewall, Mermaids, unions etc?

Any of those would definitely call you a terf and transphobic.

AssassinatedBeauty · 13/10/2021 17:57

To be clear, I meant in regard to your original post.

LaetitiaASD · 13/10/2021 17:57

@TreaslakeandBack

I don’t know a lot about this subject I admit. I am a feminist who believes that woman = adult human female. I am not anti trans- people who are born male but feel female should be supported to live as female if that’s what they want. Same with men. Live and let live. They shouldn’t be allowed to go in women only spaces unless they have had bottom surgery and full hormones. Same with men. Women should not be referred to as bodies with cervixes or any other rubbish. Women are women. Men are men. Trans women are transwomen. Transmen are transmen. Most of the time it won’t matter but in certain circumstances eg sports, single sex clubs and spaces etc they should own it and not try to be something they are not. I’m not a TERF obviously as that has a very anti trans connection. What am I?
God, where to start?

Well, according to one point of view there are only two types of people... people who believe that trans women are literally women and that it is transphobic to do anything at all to safeguard women or children, and that having a sexual orientation is literal violence against trans people, and people who are transphobic bigots who should be insulted before being raped and murdered.

According to other people there are only two types of people ... people who believe that trans women are literally women and that it is transphobic to do anything at all to safeguard women or children, and that having a sexual orientation is literal violence against trans people, or people who believe in biology, science, dictionary definitions, sexual orientations, women's rights, kids' rights, kindness and debate.

AssassinatedBeauty · 13/10/2021 17:56

It's a shame that kind of thought process needs any extra descriptor other than being aware of reality.

Original poster
TreaslakeandBack · 13/10/2021 17:55

No because I think if you are born male and grow up feeling like you are actually female, that must be hard. You should be supported to do whatever makes you comfortable as long as it doesn’t make others uncomfortable.
So if you decide you aren’t Martin but now Mary- fine. Wear the clothes you like, take hormones, I will call you Mary and she.
Just own it and accept that you still have XY chromosomes and will forever. Don’t ask others to say you have XX. You don’t and never will. Don’t say they can’t be XX unless you can be too - that’s doublespeak!
Ask others to accept you for your differences and they will as long as you own them.

OP posts:
BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 13/10/2021 17:55

@TreaslakeandBack

Yes because women don’t have a penis.
wouldn't it be simpler to say that men don't go in women's spaces, regardless of what cosmetic surgery they've had?
GingerAndTheBiscuits · 13/10/2021 17:52

Gender critical?

Whitefire · 13/10/2021 17:51

@TreaslakeandBack

Yes because women don’t have a penis.
Go straight to TERF jail, do not pass Go, do not collect £200.

You can however have a shiny badge.

Original poster
TreaslakeandBack · 13/10/2021 17:50

Being a woman is brutal btw.

OP posts:
Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 13/10/2021 17:49

You definitely come under the categories of 'Terf' and 'transphobe' by any TRA standards. Sorry about that......

Come and join the rest of us witches/dinosaurs Smile

Whitefire · 13/10/2021 17:49

How would you define a TERF? Because everything you have written firmly lands you in TERF territory.

Please note I don't think this,, but what you said will lead to an accusation of being a TERF and terribly transphobic.

Original poster
TreaslakeandBack · 13/10/2021 17:48

Yes because women don’t have a penis.

OP posts:
Original poster
TreaslakeandBack · 13/10/2021 17:48

I don’t want to exclude anyone from anything but it’s obvious that if they still have a penis they can’t be allowed in women’s changing rooms etc. It could invite all sorts of problems.

OP posts:
BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 13/10/2021 17:47

is it ethical to give any encouragement at all to someone putting themselves through that?