14th October 'Nolan Investigates' podcast - Stonewall?

I too wish they would do an episode about schools. Or a series of them about schools and children.

Maybe we could do with this gaining momentum with other journalists in specialist areas? Education journalists covering this for schools; health journalists looking at single-sex facilities and the nuts and bolts beyond gender identity clinics; legal correspondents like Joshua Rozenberg commenting on the law and the various implications…

The critique needs to be widespread and involve many people who are new to the fray.

It's unlikely that people who've been in this fight for some time, will be retrospectively vindicated or invited to do this work. I wrote up some of this previously but it's known as being a premature anti-[X] (best known examples are premature anti-fascist or premature anti-Nazi ).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a4366709-Abigail-Shrier-Marci-Bowers-critical-of-puberty-blockers?msgid=111375587#111375587

I too wish they would do an episode about schools. Or a series of them about schools and children.

They spent 18 months investigating stonewall's reach in places like the BBC and Ofcom. Stonewall and subsidiary training organisations who teach our children not just about gender identity, but general sex education need a thorough investigation.

Children are coming home believing that they can genuinely change sex. And some of the material in schools, about how fun pornography is coupled with the forcing of mixed sex facilities on girls. Not to mention the sex games recommend being played in class like the dice game.

Thanks for the prompt Alektopteryx, I've now submitted positive feedback to the BBC about this programme, for example:

It's programmes like this that represent the BBC operating in line with the Royal Charter and upholding the founding principles of the corporation. It is a credit to the corporation.

Just finished & it was so great. I wish they'd had a bit with Glinner as well as more on schools.

Sadly I think there's more impact when men discuss these issues. David Bell was great. I never thought I'd find myself defending Nolan but here we are! I've send positive feedback to the bbc & thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing!

@Alektopteryx thanks for the link. Have sent positive feedback also asking for this to now get great reach, a more balanced coverage inviting key women on now to defend their positions and counter the slander and how brave the BBC are to do this given they are investigating themselves and I respect them even more for that.

Stephen Nolan has tweeted his thanks for all the positive comments, which is lovely.

Here's a link to send your thoughts in:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/comments-feedback/#/Your%20comment

"The Nolan team deals with hard politics on a daily basis & so we are used to complaints
People are entitled to complain about the pod -many have

But the many hundreds of messages to the BBC thanking us for this pod is something we are not used to

@dt_ni & I are very grateful"

I’m just quickly de-lurking to say that I am so grateful for this board. I first stumbled across it when I saw the thread “I stand with JK Rowling” and you have opened my eyes so much. I’m so grateful for women like JKR and those on these boards for giving women like me a voice. Not just for me and women and girls everywhere, but also for our sons who also have to navigate this shit show world.

More nonsene on BBC South Today this evening, with a female Southamption fan speaking about anti-racist messages was describes as (name) 'who identifies as LGBT.'

This makes me optimistic. The activists have broadened the term so much it isn't much use and now it's being adopted as something indistinguishable from a lifestyle label. Keep up this drift into meaninglessness and eventually gay people will start looking for alternative terms which are distinctive and comprehensible.

Did you know Ben is an employer!? Loved when he presumed he was the only employee in the conversation. Interesting he never presumes anyone's chromosomes but he will presume whether they are an employer or not

Just finished episode 10. Is there more to come? I still have so many unanswered questions and frustrations at the BBC & governments refusing to be interviewed!

I haven't quite finished the podcast but the other thing that has struck me is the difference between Benjamin Cohen and David Bell.

From Cohen there is so much 'well, it can be difficult to explain but.......' and 'well, different people define in different ways but.....' and 'I get what you are saying but ' and 'i can't speak for everyone but I think it's.....' and just so much umming and ahhhhhing, trying to deflect from the point.

David Bell never falters. He is totally confident in absolutely everything he is saying. It is abundantly clear that he knows his shit and would be able to defend what he is saying all day long.

[quote BreadInCaptivity]Daily Mail has picked this up today:

How Stonewall influenced the BBC
mol.im/a/10103115[/quote]
That’s a smashing article!

Not sure how that applies to Scotland, well and truly captured despite the Independence issue.

Daily Mail has picked this up today:

How Stonewall influenced the BBC
mol.im/a/10103115

The thought experiment of “what if I woke up in a different body?” isn’t even original.

It also doesn’t go far enough. If I “woke up in a different body” the “true me inside” would presumably consist of a lifetime’s memories of living in a female body.

To make the thought experiment marginally less stupid I would have to imagine I woke up in a man’s body and virtually all my memories had been erased. Would I somehow still know I was supposed to be a woman? No, I don’t suppose I would.

The changing body in adolescence can make people feel like they are in a body they don't recognize. It's a weird feeling. And for that matter I've heard elderly people describing something similar, or women after pregnancy. But they are older and better able to integrate it (though we now try and cover the normal effects of age, almost without thinking about it, too.)

For adolescent girls though, even if they were in a non-sexist environment, the sexual element can be disconcerting. It's just factually true that puberty means we cease to be a child who reads as asexual to being someone with mature secondary sexual characteristics. And people of the opposite sex notice this, because as we all know we are just very attuned to that.

It's perfectly normal for a young woman to feel really uncomfortable and conflicted about that, even under the best circumstances. Our creepy sexual culture just makes it all that more confusing, talk about a lot of mixed messages.

"The wrong body" narrative offends me greatly.

My dear friend has spina bifida. She will never walk or have bowel control.

Was she born in the wrong body too? Or does her body just bring challenges to her life because society doesn't accommodate her needs?

Gender is just an inner sense that fucking rude, ablest, sexist, homophobic, self obsessed people have.

All of these ideas about souls and inner essences and cognition have been explored ad infitium by philosophers from the Plato to Descartes and onwards

I know. Some of this stuff I listen to and think "the ancient Greeks used to stuff people in barrels for coming up with this shit". Or maybe I'm confused about the details.

The thought experiment of “what if I woke up in a different body?” isn’t even original.

All of these ideas about souls and inner essences and cognition have been explored ad infitium by philosophers from the Plato to Descartes and onwards, and while much of interest has been theorised, not once in the history of that exploration has the definitive answer ever been “the way to happiness and fulfilment is to discard and ignore physical reality and exist as if your ideas form the only reality”.

And it still isn’t now. Cogito ergo sum, maybe, but that doesn’t make physical reality disappear, and if you didn’t have a physical brain to do the cogitating, there wouldn’t be a you to exist.

Such interesting posts. Thank you.