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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kathleen Stock’s union betrays her.

190 replies

MangoSeason · 12/10/2021 11:17

Pathetic. Weak. Craven.

twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1447863827018702855?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

OP posts:
GCAndProud · 13/10/2021 11:58

I am not surprised either. I would have had a nervous breakdown if I’d had to face even half of what she has. There’s a very real human cost here. To her opponents, Kathleen is a heard-hearted monster who doesn’t give a shit about anyone. That’s clearly wildly incorrect as many of her friends have said. I can’t imagine any person, no matter how thick-skinned, being able to tolerate what she has gone through at the hands of her colleagues and at the hands of students. It’s absolutely disgusting.

PronounssheRa · 13/10/2021 11:09

@YetAnotherSpartacus

Sadly, Kathleen seems to have taken leave due to illness (email bounceback). :(
I'm not surprised, it must be having a huge impact on her.
YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/10/2021 11:06

Sadly, Kathleen seems to have taken leave due to illness (email bounceback). :(

chilling19 · 13/10/2021 11:04

Also thanks to @Christinaxyz for the heads up to Affinity.

chilling19 · 13/10/2021 11:00

They seem OK - they have people from all sorts of jobs on their books and it is run as a collective. I did feel adrift after ditching UCU last night - I have been in a union (and been a rep in the past) since I was 16. I think this model is less collective bargaining and more personal representation. They say they are not political and this feels like a relief to be honest.

GCAcademic · 13/10/2021 10:57

Thanks for the link to Affinity. They look good; I like the fact that they offer representation from full-time experienced officials rather than, basically, volunteers fitting union work in around their jobs. I'd actually left UCU and joined GMB a while back, but I am considering Affinity now.

MidsomerMurmurs · 13/10/2021 10:24

@chilling19

Ditched UCU last night: hello Affinity: filled in their form last night, had a call this morning and now have representation. Really nice guy, confirmed that they offer in-person representation if needed and 24/7 helpline for employment issues and others (i.e. horrible neighbours!). £7.65 per month. Cover for new issues starts immediately. Been meaning to ditch UCU after being horrified by their stance; after their complete capitulation to the bullies in Prof Stock's case, enough is enough. workaffinity.co.uk
Interesting! I’ve been union-less for about 7 months now having left UCU but would like to be in a union. Saw Affinity at the time, vaguely, but didn’t know whether or not to go for it as someone who works in a university. Will have another look.
OperationDessertStorm · 13/10/2021 09:55

What message is this sending to employers? Are these people going to protest against every client they don’t 100% approve of?

chilling19 · 13/10/2021 09:55

Ditched UCU last night: hello Affinity: filled in their form last night, had a call this morning and now have representation. Really nice guy, confirmed that they offer in-person representation if needed and 24/7 helpline for employment issues and others (i.e. horrible neighbours!). £7.65 per month. Cover for new issues starts immediately. Been meaning to ditch UCU after being horrified by their stance; after their complete capitulation to the bullies in Prof Stock's case, enough is enough.
workaffinity.co.uk

Artichokeleaves · 13/10/2021 09:36

To add: it also needs to be proportionally considered as to the time and capacity this percentage of the student body are taking up of University management, the volume of requirement for attention, interaction, time, response, and the impact upon staff. Is this an appropriate use of resources?

Artichokeleaves · 13/10/2021 09:34

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Exactly. If they root out all the GC women, what then? They're not just going to live in perfect harmony with everyone. It will get nastier and nastier because that's how power works. It needs to be nipped in the bud, but universities are being weak on this.
It needs to be established exactly how many attending students this involves. Not friends of, not online pile on associates or members of political lobby groups, but students, attending. And what percentage they represent of the student body.

And then the volume of the voice and the weight being accorded them needs to be proportionally considered.

It also needs to be seriously considered by all bodies supposed to be providing impartial services equally to all, that this is becoming a situation in which certain groups are being awarded far more recognition, support, power and control, and strong hierarchies are being formed. Standard values that should apply equally to all are being twisted to apply to some and not to others based on selected characteristics. That is not equality or inclusion, that is actively encouraging discrimination according to increasingly 'controversial' politics which try to justify this as a good thing.

Tedimhoardingrightsosaur · 13/10/2021 09:16

GB News item.

ErrolTheDragon · 13/10/2021 08:55

Today's Times piece on this

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-union-backs-trans-rights-over-threatened-professor-kathleen-stock-sgzz09j2f?shareToken=e577cf2368237c67636620da5a8c5b99

(Its followed by the Scottish government's 'anyone with a cervix' nonsense.)

merrymouse · 13/10/2021 08:31

Jo Phoenix:

thecritic.co.uk/is-transphobia-an-academic-critique/

There are only two comments I can make. First, the union might want to consider what it means by “appeal to employment rights and academic freedom”. Professor Stock, or any gender critical academic, does not need to “appeal” to these things. As employees we have employment rights. The University does not need to appeal to academic freedom; it has a legal responsibility to protect it. Employment rights and academic freedom already have a legal limit and it is my opinion that the constant cry of transphobia (without argument or evidence) sits outside those limits.

Can a Union be described as a Union if it regards employment rights not as something that can be defined in legislation, but vague suggestions that can be disregarded at the whim of the employer?

KittenKong · 13/10/2021 08:24

More and more outrageous demands, people too scared to speak out or say anything that not ‘approved think’.

Looks when we have ‘celebs’ demanding that we don’t call aliens.... aliens (and I mean the ET type) because it’s offensive (or exclusory or something like that), then you can see how crazy it can get.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/10/2021 08:21

Exactly. If they root out all the GC women, what then? They're not just going to live in perfect harmony with everyone. It will get nastier and nastier because that's how power works. It needs to be nipped in the bud, but universities are being weak on this.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/10/2021 08:20

@PronounssheRa

What's this has all highlighted is, there is no middle ground, no space to discuss how to resolve the conflict of rights. Prof stock is one of the most reasonable and kind (some would argue too kind) voices, if this is how she is treated it makes it clear that TRAs will accept nothing but total capitulation.
I think the now deleted thread on what would a win look like highlighted that very well

Ostensibly reasonable, it quickly defaulted too “you just hate me and all trans ppl” with no real attempt to listen

We said this was where beeee kiiiind would end up, taking no pleasure in being right

ScreamingMeMesaur · 13/10/2021 08:19

As someone pointed out in the replies, do none of them remember Evergreen College? Nobody is safe from a runaway mob once it's had a taste of power.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/10/2021 08:12

They scream their heads off on twitter - then you look at their bio and it’s all ‘be kind’ ‘she was only walking home’ ‘charity worker/manager’ ‘mental health champion’ bla bla bla meaningless nonsense...

YY. All posturing.

merrymouse · 13/10/2021 08:09

Oops! Wrong thread!

merrymouse · 13/10/2021 08:08

www.adweek.com/creativity/john-lewis-joyful-ad-lets-a-boy-embrace-his-inner-stevie-nicks/

I assume this is all copied from a John Lewis press release because the reviewer doesn’t appear to have watched either advertisement.

TheElementsSong · 13/10/2021 08:00

Just wanted to say that @thecatfromjapan has beautifully articulated my thoughts.

Unfortunately I can’t join the flouncing from UCU because we (me and DH) already flounced some time ago, when it had become obvious they were totally captured, useless at actually representing the real issues of workers, and it was only a matter of time before they performatively threw somebody under the wake bus.

KittenKong · 13/10/2021 07:45

It’s whipping up a whole storm - and yes, they have no idea.

They scream their heads off on twitter - then you look at their bio and it’s all ‘be kind’ ‘she was only walking home’ ‘charity worker/manager’ ‘mental health champion’ bla bla bla meaningless nonsense...

Oh in R4 now... spectator, times...

Can we send cards to Kathleen (maybe via her publisher?).

MoltenLasagne · 13/10/2021 07:34

It's just mud-flinging and tantrums from the TRA side.

Reading through twitter it's not even mud-slinging so much as people who have no idea what's going on, and with no desire to correct that, shouting for Stock's dismissal for things that never happened. I've seen people say she has no right to talk about LGBT as a cishet, that she should have no opinion as she's a professor of literature and that she's refusing to use pronouns. All obviously wrong after very little research but they're too enamoured with their self righteous rage to bother with facts.

FlyingOink · 13/10/2021 07:25

@PronounssheRa

What's this has all highlighted is, there is no middle ground, no space to discuss how to resolve the conflict of rights. Prof stock is one of the most reasonable and kind (some would argue too kind) voices, if this is how she is treated it makes it clear that TRAs will accept nothing but total capitulation.
It's a good example of their irrational, emotional, and unreasonable approach. Especially as there is a handy book full of Stock's views on the subject from which they could select the most controversial excerpts, and they still can't find anything.

It's just mud-flinging and tantrums from the TRA side.

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