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Joan Smith on Woman's Hour today (Tuesday 12/10)

36 replies

WinterTrees · 12/10/2021 10:37

Interesting discussion about misogyny as a hate crime, but especially notable that afterwards, Emma Barnett asks Joan Smith directly about her removal from Sadiq Khan's office.

JS a little vague at first, but EB really encourages her to drill down into whether she thinks her views were the reason behind her removal. She (EB) has also just said that she's going to try to get Sadiq Khan on the programme to discuss it.

Having been really disappointed in Woman's Hour since the new format and presenters, I am getting more and more encouraged that they are finally fulfilling their remit to represent women. About time (and possibly a too late to be really useful) but welcome nonetheless.

OP posts:
HollowTalk · 12/10/2021 11:41

I'm not sure that Jane Garvey is on the woke side but her children definitely are, from what she's said on Fortunately. I didn't like WH for the first few weeks with Emma Barnett but she's really come into her own lately. She's certainly a lot tougher than Jane and Jenni were and rightly so.

Clymene · 12/10/2021 11:33

I think their wishy washy stance was down to Garvey. She has teenage children and from things she's said on fortunately, she and Fi Glover very much in the 'be kind' camp.

nauticant · 12/10/2021 11:31

I suspect this apparent shift is to do with stated position of Tim Davie, archive.fo/OGYhI, and his worry that the shift into partiality will have caused problems for the BBC in their current negotiations with the government on the future cost of the TV licence.

Original poster
WinterTrees · 12/10/2021 11:21

Yes, the dynamic was very much that Joan Smith was being guarded with her words (conditioned, like most women with a public platform, to be ultra-cautious about stating the view that men should be excluded from women's spaces) but Emma Barnett encouraged her to say it.

It's amazing just how much that encouragement changes the tone of the conversation, especially for listeners who perhaps aren't aware of all the ins and outs and the 'no debate' backstory. If guests who mention women's spaces, or trans people, or men who identify as women, are instantly interrupted by a presenter who is clearly alarmed, uncomfortable and seeking to minimise, it tells the listener that these are views that mustn't be aired. They're not 'nice' or appropriate.

EB actually giving JS a space to set out the 'problematic' views that contributed to her dismissal changes the basis of the discussion from defensive to one where the issue can be properly scrutinised. The Emperor's outfit can be critiqued.

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WarriorN · 12/10/2021 11:00

The Maya Forstater stuff was rubbish.

But I think they're listening.

I've been impressed with how quickly they're acting recently.

Abhannmor · 12/10/2021 11:00

Joan was very measured in her comments. But she did allude to the issue of men in women's toilets being a possible reason she was sidelined , among others. Emma Barnett picked up on this very smartly too. A good interview.

WarriorN · 12/10/2021 10:59

Thanks for raising this; I did have hopeful faith in Emma due to her ability to cut through the crap on other matters prior to WH. A few things here and there indicated there is no way she could be anything other than clear on what a woman is.

In retrospect I believe the extension of the prog to an hour (have spent 30 yrs muttering that that was silly; but I cba with the plays) has allowed her more current affairs interview time. She's good at this.

She's being dutifully impartial but getting people on who either know what they're talking about and raise pertinent points or people who are quite frankly bonkers and allowing them all to do the leg work.

It's allowing the debate we've not been allowed for so long and what mps keep banging on about but never actually have.

I miss JG and JM desperately but I'm (now) beginning to have faith in this new direction. (I'm struggling with Anita somewhat.)

Shedbuilder · 12/10/2021 10:55

I'm wondering whether they read Helen Joyce's book and the penny finally dropped. Or perhaps now it seems that the BBC has pried itself clear of Stonewall, years of pent-up female frustration are pouring out. I would love to heard Jane Garvey's take on it, not least so that we finally know whether Jane is actually a full-on feminist or just someone who identified as a feminist for the purposes of Woman's Hour.

I was so disappointed with Emma Barnett to start with that I gave up on WH altogether, but it sounds as if now she's able to be herself she's really come into her own.

Original poster
WinterTrees · 12/10/2021 10:53

Sorry catzwhiskas! I was listening and wondering if there was a thread - I think it's useful to keep a record of these media discussions when they happen, so we can see how the landscape is changing over time.

I've grumbled a lot in the past about the things WH give airtime to and what they sideline (notably Sarah Beeny's bathwater over Maya Forstater's court case!) so it's interesting to see this shift happening. I don't think this conversation would have been hosted in this format a year ago. It seems that they are gaining confidence to talk about women's rights without having to do that ridiculous 'balance' thing and surrounding simple statements with qualifiers and caveats. It feels like there has been a shift behind the scenes and the grown-ups are finally getting firm with the interns.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/10/2021 10:49

Glad to hear they are covering more challenging stuff than the nonsense recently.

catzwhiskas · 12/10/2021 10:40

Story cross posted. But agree that Emma and production team seem to have woken up at last and covering the issues much better these days. Never have read out any of my emails though!

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