Legal rights of gender dysphoric yr 8 boy to be placed in a girls dorm

Statement of superior authority. Followed by a statement that women wanting rights, safeguarding, to be homosexual and not shag males, to be independent of male supervision- in fact to just say 'no' to male orders to them- are 'extremists'.

Yeah, nuff said there really.

It's male supremacism in one neatly wrapped parcel. #nothankyou.

You could also imagine that this person has no concept of what being a 12/13 year old girl actually is like either. Funny that. How can a ‘woman’ be such a great advocate for women…. but cannot have the basic understanding of being a 12/13 girl?

It really is impossible to unsee it once you see it.

The subset of males insisting they are ‘just like every other woman’ but lack any concept of the needs of girls (let alone the actual needs of women), effectively punching down to ensure girls grow up with lowered boundaries.

You have to keep asking yourself, who benefits from that?

As they don't appear to be on the notional list of 'exceptional' circumstances in which trans people can be excluded

It's pretty repulsive really. Desperate males who will say and do anything in order to get access to females. It's always been like this in one form or another. Which is why women and girls have sex segregated space in the first place. These males have reinvented themselves as women and reframed themselves as the victims. And some people have actually fallen for it. Instead of telling these men to fuck right off.

Given that RMW didn't answer the question, I'm guessing we can assume that RMW doesn't believe that:

• Rape survivors have the right to a female counsellor if they ask for one
• 13 year old girls have the right to single sex sleeping accommodation.

As they don't appear to be on the notional list of 'exceptional' circumstances in which trans people can be excluded.

Good to have that confirmed.

the desire for a trans equivalent of s28 becomes all the more horrific the more plain it is made.

Please explain this @RobinMoiraWhite.

Did you actually intend to state that to wish for clear and robust safeguarding measures based on sex is the equivalent of s28?

In what way? Exactly and specifically, what way?

(I am going to leave this here again because it wasn’t answered. It seems that Robin likes to make rather hyperbolic statements and never explain. Just like the usual ploppers.

Although they did come back and tell us we were effectively extremists. I am another one who won’t report their negative generalisation though, because I want readers to see the level of debate from someone who is supposedly Stonewall’s finest.

Well we know the level of dishonesty and denigration towards women that the very head of Stonewall shows. Nancy Kelley just try to cloak her hatred behind statements that can be open to interpretation. Why on earth would we expect anything different than disparagement and denigration from a member of SW legal team?

We will simply watch the upcoming Allison Bailey case we great interest.

May I suggest that anyone who believes men can be women should perhaps think before accusing other people of extreme views

Indeed. Thinking it's possible to change sex is a very extreme position. And one that very few people believe is actually possible.

May I suggest that anyone who believes men can be women should perhaps think before accusing other people of extreme views.

I very much enjoy Robin’s assumption (“I am the advocate”) that Robin is the only one bringing a legal qualification to the table here

Bit…sexist, innit?

Also, wrong.

It’s a very common misconception from many visitors that women here are “just” mummies, and do not in fact possess many relevant professional accomplishments and skills. We just don’t all feel we need to make the appeal to authority of posting under the names that those professional accomplishments belong to. I’d rather make the point on its own merits, myself.

If anyone considers those views extreme then they lack any humanity

Clearly women need to shhh and let the penis owners in to observe what the women are doing and talking about. The penis owners need to watch. They need to listen. They need to be in control. They don't care about being lonely or unwanted. Being unwanted simply adds to the frisson. This movement is a voyeurs wet dream.

extreme views

to add to Datun's list:

like women and girls not wanting to share spaces with men and boys who want to identify their way into them?

like women and girls wanting safety, privacy and dignity that single sex spaces and services should provide?

or how about not wanting the language around women and women's health to be bastardised and dehumanising to women with the result that it excludes women from the very services they need?

or not serving up women as potential victims to convicted male rapists by incarcerating said males in the female prison estate?

not expecting women prisoners to be used as validation tools for males and male rapists who declare they feel like a woman?

or excluding women fleeing violence or requiring rape and trauma counselling by allowing males in those places and services?

If anyone considers those views extreme then they lack any humanity.

It's always my questions that get ignored or batted away with something meaningless.
I'm not sure whether to be offended. I'll just carry on asking, I suppose.

@mybroomstick

As well as being so harmful for girls and women expected to buy into this lie, it’s also really harmful to the trans person also.

It’s the equivalent of telling a child in a wheelchair who will never walk, that they will one day be free to walk and run just because they want to.

It’s a horrifically cruel trick to play on a child especially.

My parents used to lie to me to fuck with my head all the time in ways that feel similar. Telling me we were going to the vets to make my dog better, when actually he was getting put down, and laughing at me afterwards.

It makes me wonder whose enjoying setting these kids up to fail. Whose getting their kicks out of dangling a lie like a carrot and then watching the kid fall flat on their face when reality hits home.

Who does that to a child, except an abuser? Why would any teachers, trained in safeguarding, let parents abuse their child in this way?

Is there some kind of social loathing of gnc kids that means some adults are subconsciously only too happy to scapegoat gnc kids in this way?

It sounds like a stretch until we consider the likes of Keira Bell and what she was put through, just because she didn’t fit into a neat little box of expectations. Then it feels exactly like culling gnc.

@RobinMoiraWhite

I'm lost.

Is your position that is is "extremist" for a majority of female bodied people to not want to share safe spaces with male bodied people?

And if so, why are the wants of trans people more important than the wants of a substantial number of biological women?

Do you believe all spaces should be unisex and biological women have no right to single sex spaces?

Exactly this.

I don't know why posters insist on assuming that everyone is familiar with the English school system nor why it is so impossible to state a child's actual age.

I don't know what age "Year 8" is. I could Google it but why should I have to?

Year 8 kids might not be having sex and might be perfectly safe sleeping in the same room. But what happens in 24 months time when we have year 10 kids sleeping in the same room. Such a major safeguarding issue! Amazed me that even in this thread there are people willing to compromise on hypothetically their daughter’s safety.

And the last sentence quoted above is not my view. Trans people can be excluded but as the EHRC Guidance IMHO correctly states, 'exceptional' reasons are required.

Got it.

Do you think that raped women wanting a female only space to recover is characterised as exceptional? What about teenage girls in a shower? Or a school dormitory? Or a female prison cell?

Is it exceptional for a woman to want only a female handling her breasts for a mammogram? Or a nurse doing her smear?

Which one of these situations would constitute exceptional, and which wouldn't, in your opinion?

Because the situation I quoted was a raped woman being counselled by a man, unbeknownst to her.

In the interests of clarity it would save a lot of time if you could list the situations that you consider exceptional. Is it all the above, some of the above, none of the above?

To patronise and 'educate' at a guess RedCarpetRebellion, pity it doesn't work.

When and where are women entitled to women only spaces in your opinion then @RobinMoiraWhite?

There we go - it is exceptional that raped and traumatised women would want a male free space to recover in and to talk.

It is exceptional that any woman would want safety, privacy and dignity that male free spaces allow.

This isn't a misogynistic agenda determined to destroy every women only space, determined that women will have nothing and nowhere where males are not permitted, of course it isn't.